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So you would say that a rape victim has to go against their beliefs of not killing what is a child to them and have an abortion? Or keep the child, which would be difficult no matter how much they might love the child itself, just to satisfy your definition? *Shrug* it's an opinion, not fact, that adoption cannot be an option for people who end up with an unintended pregnancy for whatever reason and do not want an abortion themselves in conjunction with their beliefs.
A rape victim also has a choice just like everyone else. I don't think you or anyone else should advise them to abort especially if she is pro-birth.
Except that Planned Parenthood is being singled out by the feds. Is every other organization in the country that provides abortions in addition to women's reproductive care also losing the ability to bill Medicaid or losing Title X finding?
Presently this is just the states withholding funding but if the GOP get's there way at the federal level they will do the same. They have attempted to do the same in Texas, I don't see how you deny a perfectly capable provider federal funds for no other reason than you don't like them. I would expect a lawsuit on this but what else is new.
A rape victim also has a choice just like everyone else. I don't think you or anyone else should advise them to abort especially if she is pro-birth.
Oh trust me, I personally would not advise them to have an abortion. I am really not in favor of the idea itself, though I defer to logic that other people don't believe the same as me and it's going to happen to some degree.
Just saying that if adoption is somehow verboten to people who haven't had the kid yet, it limits their choices and hamstrings them....thus throwing out that situation to show it's not so black and white.
I think we need to leave this subject to the Doctor and the Patient. Why this has to be a politically charged conversation just gets me. These conservatives don't want abortion, yet once the baby is born they don't want to help the mother care for a child she didn't want.
We don't know why the mother is seeking an abortion. Maybe she is just going in for medical care. Why is it our business. Are you going to help the mother of an unwanted child? Conservatives don't believe in welfare. Notice it's mostly men dictating to women what they need to do. Let women have a say, it's their bodies.
I think we need to leave this subject to the Doctor and the Patient. Why this has to be a politically charged conversation just gets me. These conservatives don't want abortion, yet once the baby is born they don't want to help the mother care for a child she didn't want.
I have consistantly supported public assistance programs. I support day care so mothers can either work or go to school. I supported Bernie's college program.
I support UHC.
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We don't know why the mother is seeking an abortion. Maybe she is just going in for medical care. Why is it our business. Are you going to help the mother of an unwanted child? Conservatives don't believe in welfare. Notice it's mostly men dictating to women what they need to do. Let women have a say, it's their bodies.
What about rape victims who are anti-abortion?
Maybe there is really a way to fix the system more so it's more tenable as an alternative.
A rape victim who is anti-abortion should absolutely still get a voice and choice.
If she wants to raise the child, then that's her choice.
If she wants to put the child up for adoption, that's her choice.
Still her choice. Still her voice.
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Originally Posted by latimeria
If someone is opposed to an abortion for beliefs that it is taking a life, this is an acceptable "out" for them. Plus, there are people who would love to adopt for various reasons, but can't afford the high initial fees, esp. with multiple kids.
"High initial fees".
You mean for covering things like medical costs? Clothing costs? Wage loss?
If someone is not able to cover the basic costs associated with pregnancy... they have no business asking another person to go through pregnancy to give them a child.
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Originally Posted by Middletwin
We need to clarify pro-choice. It is deciding to terminate a pregnancy or continue it. Continuing a pregnancy makes two people parents, forever. Giving their child to a second set of parents is not the definition of pro-choice.
Feel free to enjoy that strawman version of what you feel "pro-choice" means.
In the real world, being pro-choice means supporting the right to choose how one wishes to handle a pregnancy. Abortion is a choice. Raising the child is a choice. Putting the child up for adoption is a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by latimeria
So you would say that a rape victim has to go against their beliefs of not killing what is a child to them and have an abortion? Or keep the child, which would be difficult no matter how much they might love the child itself, just to satisfy your definition? *Shrug* it's an opinion, not fact, that adoption cannot be an option for people who end up with an unintended pregnancy for whatever reason and do not want an abortion themselves in conjunction with their beliefs.
I would support a rape victim in any choice she makes regarding that pregnancy. If she wishes to raise the child, then that's her choice. If she wishes to put the child up for adoption, then that's her choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin
A rape victim also has a choice just like everyone else. I don't think you or anyone else should advise them to abort especially if she is pro-birth.
Nobody is telling rape victims that they have to abort.
People who are pro-choice stand behind a rape victim getting to make their own choice.
If a rape victim desires to have an abortion, I would support them getting one. If a rape victim desires to raise the child, I would support them. If a rape victim desires to put the child up for adoption, I would support them. Their choice, not mine.
Doesn't even have to be a rape victim. ANY pregnant person who desires to receive an abortion before the viability cut-off point should have that option. Any pregnant person who wishes to raise the child should have that option. Any pregnant person who wishes to put a child up for adoption should have that option.
Past the point of viability, if there is a medical NEED to terminate the pregnancy early, then that should absolutely be between them and their doctor.
A rape victim who is anti-abortion should absolutely still get a voice and choice.
If she wants to raise the child, then that's her choice.
If she wants to put the child up for adoption, that's her choice.
Still her choice. Still her voice.
"High initial fees".
You mean for covering things like medical costs? Clothing costs? Wage loss?
If someone is not able to cover the basic costs associated with pregnancy... they have no business asking another person to go through pregnancy to give them a child.
Feel free to enjoy that strawman version of what you feel "pro-choice" means.
In the real world, being pro-choice means supporting the right to choose how one wishes to handle a pregnancy. Abortion is a choice. Raising the child is a choice. Putting the child up for adoption is a choice.
I would support a rape victim in any choice she makes regarding that pregnancy. If she wishes to raise the child, then that's her choice. If she wishes to put the child up for adoption, then that's her choice.
Nobody is telling rape victims that they have to abort.
People who are pro-choice stand behind a rape victim getting to make their own choice.
If a rape victim desires to have an abortion, I would support them getting one. If a rape victim desires to raise the child, I would support them. If a rape victim desires to put the child up for adoption, I would support them. Their choice, not mine.
Doesn't even have to be a rape victim. ANY pregnant person who desires to receive an abortion before the viability cut-off point should have that option. Any pregnant person who wishes to raise the child should have that option. Any pregnant person who wishes to put a child up for adoption should have that option.
Past the point of viability, if there is a medical NEED to terminate the pregnancy early, then that should absolutely be between them and their doctor.
We happen to have good insurance and the bills for our kids were about $350 each in pregnancy care/hospital fees. Since I didn't know what other people pay, I looked it up and one result is "On average, U.S. hospital deliveries cost $3,500 per stay, according to the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Healthcare Cost and Utilization Project. Add in prenatal, delivery-related and post-partum healthcare, and you're looking at an $8,802 tab, according to a Thomson Healthcare study for March of Dimes." http://www.parents.com/pregnancy/con...ospital-costs/
With these estimates, it's about 4x as much on average to adopt a kid vs. birth it. That's a lot to ask for people to have up front on top of having savings/means to take care of the child after they adopt it. No wonder more can't afford it.
Could we not look into ways to make the process cheaper/more efficient (not bare bones, not even the same as a birth, just cheaper) and not think that not being able to adopt as it is means you can't afford a kid? This would also help out kids who are already born and out there....
I agree with the rest. Choice means choice. Trying to qualify when/if people should abort, keep or adopt removes true choice.
Last edited by latimeria; 06-01-2017 at 06:56 PM..
People shouldn't talk to pregnant women to get their baby nor should they infer how hard it will be to raise a rape child. Pregnant women are off limits and they should not be subjected to covert coersion. These are other reasons why adoption has never and never will be a solution for an unintended pregnancy.
People shouldn't talk to pregnant women to get their baby nor should they infer how hard it will be to raise a rape child. Pregnant women are off limits and they should not be subjected to covert coersion. These are other reasons why adoption has never and never will be a solution for an unintended pregnancy.
This is a general discussion. No, we cannot know how a specific person will handle this child of a rape when trying to have these generic discussions. Can we at least agree that some, many, however you wish to quantify it, would have a hard time? Maybe even a really really really hard time?
What if it's solely the pregnant woman's idea to adopt out? Would you deny her that? You are now still placing some covert or even overt coercion on them to either abort or keep a kid that is a hardship because you've removed a third viable option.
What if they are absolutely anti-abortion for themselves? What if this new child means that they end up using welfare, etc.?
There are a lot of facets and ramifications that go with the situation. How about this: should you find yourself with an unintended pregnancy for yourself or your partner (or just imagine yourself in the situation if it's somehow not possible, since I have no knowledge of you, personally), you don't have to adopt out the kid. Ok?
Last edited by latimeria; 06-01-2017 at 07:26 PM..
I think we need to leave this subject to the Doctor and the Patient. Why this has to be a politically charged conversation just gets me. These conservatives don't want abortion, yet once the baby is born they don't want to help the mother care for a child she didn't want.
We don't know why the mother is seeking an abortion. Maybe she is just going in for medical care. Why is it our business. Are you going to help the mother of an unwanted child? Conservatives don't believe in welfare. Notice it's mostly men dictating to women what they need to do. Let women have a say, it's their bodies.
^^This.
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