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Your OP would suggest your premise is exactly what I insist: They can't find the help they need to staff the facility... translation-we dont have enough immigrant workers We're finding the problem Trump and his supporters thought they were fixingreducing immigrant workerswas actually not as much a problem for us as much as it was a solutiontranslation- we dont have enough immigrant workers. A solution we were apparently not able to admit or legitimize. We made them out to be "rapists and murderers" instead and made them unwelcome even though they were doing all the work we can't do on our own and don't want to do! translation- we dont have enough immigrant workers The problem is that you believe you are right and everyone else is wrong. We all have access to all of the articles, blogs, and statistics out there that explore sources of the problems, we all have our own personal experiences. You have not provided anything that would convince me that increasing work visas let alone a lacks illegal immigration policy would benefit Americans and I have read plenty and experienced enough of the opposite.
I surely don't believe I am right and "everyone else is wrong."
You and many people who think like you are wrong, but many people know better the actual facts related to this subject. Your links and/or lack thereof prove this out, and your inability to accept my first hand accounts and experience as an employer demonstrates your inability to consider what you don't want to consider. I have told the truth regardless, whether you want to accept those facts or not.
Perhaps more importantly, I have paid very close attention to our problems related to unemployment, poverty, the reasons the gap between rich and poor is forever widening -- for a long time now -- for reasons very directly relevant and necessary for me. I have seen the numbers/statistics related to jobs filled by immigrants (legal and illegal), and it is very clear to me that all that general labor work (maids, janitors, meat packing, ditch digging, landscaping, construction, roofing, washing dishes, cooking...), is there for Americans who want it, always has been. The minimum wage is not because of immigrants, and the immigrants taking these jobs are not the reason Americans don't have the work or pay they want!
Rather than repost the countless studies, reports, statistics I have before, you can simply look for them by searching my prior comments on this subject. I might bother to post them again, but experience has taught me that none of that sort of information works with people (like Trump supporters) who are simply unwilling to consider what is pretty well obvious to me at this point.
"[W]e have to deal with the 11 million individuals who are here illegally. We all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship. But for comprehensive immigration reform to work, it must be clear from the outset that there is a pathway to citizenship…
We've got to lay out a path -- a process that includes passing a background check, paying taxes, paying a penalty, learning English, and then going to the back of the line, behind all the folks who are trying to come here legally. That's only fair, right?...
So that means it won't be a quick process but it will be a fair process. And it will lift these individuals out of the shadows and give them a chance to earn their way to a green card and eventually to citizenship."
Barack Obama, JD
44th President of the United States
Remarks at Del Sol High School in Las Vegas
whitehouse.gov
Jan. 29, 2013
First of all, it's not just liberals who are in favor of immigration, many free-market republicans feel the same way. Ronald Reagan granted a few million illegals amnesty back in the 80's.
Second, contrary to the never-ending arguments of the anti-immigrationists, there are, indeed, many jobs natives won't do, even at good wages. If you don't believe me, go down to the nearest apple or other fruit orchard and ask to be hired picking apples. If you're willing to do that (which I doubt), let's see how long you actually last in that job (answer: probably not very long).
You mean actually put your notions to the test rather than just watch what Trump and Fox News tells you?
Can you perhaps explain what knowledge or experience you have about employers looking for workers that causes you to make the claims you do? I don't know of any employer who prefers to go through the worker-visa process/hassle if instead they can fill the needed positions from the domestic labor pool. Some argue the simple dynamic of supply and demand in this thread. Why does that not simply apply here?
If the supply is here, there is no demand for forners!
Right! It's not that simple! But I will guarantamtee you that employers don't "claim" they can't find American workers for these jobs, as if they're making that challenge up. One of the biggest challenges for employers is getting "good help." Not just someone who will fill out the application and show up for the job, but someone who will do the job well, and stick with it. There's a BIG difference, as I'm sure you know. Have you ever faced the same challenge?
The low pay for some of these jobs is not the fault of the immigrants. Low pay and employer's efforts to pay as little as they can for payroll is a matter of competition, short-term financial goals, satisfying stock-holders, competition from foreign companies, lack of an educated work force, just for starters...
I listed several articles discussing how the companies hire H1-B visa holders, bring them in have them shadow their citizen employees then lay off their citizen employee. You can read that yourself. I have also read many articles with interviews with corporate farmers who admit to hiring illegals because of the hassle of going thru the visa program for temporary farm workers.
The bottom line to this is employers prefer legal and illegal immigrant workers because they can get away with paying them less and working them more and not worry about any complaints about working conditions from their employees. As usual profit margin is the bottom line. Its not as simple as supply and demand, its having a supply you can pay less and treat worse. Americans have fought a long time for fair wages and decent working conditions, vacations, overtime pay, insurance benefits, retirement plans, flex hours, friendly work environments. These are not concerns of immigrant labor because even working here for lower wages and crappy work conditions is far better than what they left.
What you are advocating or making excuses for is basically allowing slave labor so employers can make bigger profits.
Here we go again with the same old stale pro illegal argument that no one else will do these jobs which is total bull crap. Why do liberals seem to get some satisfaction knowing illegals are being used for 21st century slave labor and then brag about how they are uneducated and can't do anything else? How about you start cleaning your own toilet, prepare your own food, mow your own lawn and pay another American a decent wage to be a caretaker?
BTW, you might as well quote the National Enquirer as the NY Times. They are both full of propaganda crap and best used in the bathroom to wipe.
Sure.
Find Americans who can pass a drug test and a background check. Then let's see if they'll change soiled linens for minimum wage.
I surely don't believe I am right and "everyone else is wrong."
You and many people who think like you are wrong, but many people know better the actual facts related to this subject. Your links and/or lack thereof prove this out, and your inability to accept my first hand accounts and experience as an employer demonstrates your inability to consider what you don't want to consider. I have told the truth regardless, whether you want to accept those facts or not.
Perhaps more importantly, I have paid very close attention to our problems related to unemployment, poverty, the reasons the gap between rich and poor is forever widening -- for a long time now -- for reasons very directly relevant and necessary for me. I have seen the numbers/statistics related to jobs filled by immigrants (legal and illegal), and it is very clear to me that all that general labor work (maids, janitors, meat packing, ditch digging, landscaping, construction, roofing, washing dishes, cooking...), is there for Americans who want it, always has been. The minimum wage is not because of immigrants, and the immigrants taking these jobs are not the reason Americans don't have the work or pay they want!
Rather than repost the countless studies, reports, statistics I have before, you can simply look for them by searching my prior comments on this subject. I might bother to post them again, but experience has taught me that none of that sort of information works with people (like Trump supporters) who are simply unwilling to consider what is pretty well obvious to me at this point.
No your anecdotal explanations dont hold any weight with me. I have as many observations, knowledge of employees who hired illegals, people who lost jobs and work for lower wages due to illegals as you so your posting of your experience holds no more weight than what I have experienced. Your posting have also been contradictory as I pointed out earlier and the links (yes I did read them) you provided have not supported your premise. I have provided plenty links to articles as well, links that were not biased (written by pro-illegal immigration).
Stick with what Libertarians, liberals and/or conservatives represent, wherever you wish, and we can compare notes about that, but all this going on about what you may understand that I don't is just wasting more time and key strokes. The point about the size of the California economy is simply to note that even if we are just one state, we represent a whole lot of Americans, a huge part of the GDP, and more progressive attitudes about most political issues compared to "middle America." Agree with those attitudes or not. Fine, but let's be clear about the right or wrong those attitudes may represent and why -- like towards immigration policy -- rather than waste time about where we live. Okay?
PS: I have lived in California most of my life, because as compared to all the rest of those places I've been, I have never found anywhere else I would prefer to live.
I am glad you like where you live. As far as a place having a large GDP and therefore representing other places how about China. Big GDP but I would not take what goes on there and make a broad statement of how the rest of the world thinks. Same comparing California to the rest of the USA. That is why many who live in states like California believe we have a shortage in unskilled immigrants which is simply not true.
California has gone more to the left while much of the country shifts more to the right. And this was going on way before Trump entered the picture.
LA TIMES Story:
a new poll details how much more liberal the state has become compared with the rest of the country and why it was so much more receptive to the Democrat.
Hispanics/latinos make up 17 percent of Americans. Correct, actually closer to 18% currently.
In some states (like mine) they approach 50 percent. Nope, only 1 state approaches 50%. New Mexico. In fact, only 3 states surpass 30%.
Here in California -- nearly 40 percent. Correct.
California, if a country, would be one of the 10 biggest in the world... Nope. If a country, California would bump Poland out of 35th place.
California is not representative of the vast majority of the United States.
Fair enough. I love when anyone actually cares about the facts, even when pointing out the needed corrections/clarifications of those provided by me...
Perhaps semantics, but "some" states is not many, and surpassing 30% might be considered approaching 50%, like mine. I should probably just provide the link from where this sort of information can speak for itself to keep myself out of trouble when it comes to the detailed specifics...
As for California's economy, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers, but I think you are wrong about that one. California is often noted as the sixth largest economy in the world, with GDP of about $2,600 billion per year. Poland comes in at about $545 billion.
See chart contained in this article for example...
Just over 11 percent of Americans live in California and of course that is no "vast majority," but California is one of the more diverse states in the country when it comes to many demographics, and in that respect perhaps better representative of ALL Americans than most other states. Fair?
I listed several articles discussing how the companies hire H1-B visa holders, bring them in have them shadow their citizen employees then lay off their citizen employee. You can read that yourself. I have also read many articles with interviews with corporate farmers who admit to hiring illegals because of the hassle of going thru the visa program for temporary farm workers.
The bottom line to this is employers prefer legal and illegal immigrant workers because they can get away with paying them less and working them more and not worry about any complaints about working conditions from their employees. As usual profit margin is the bottom line. Its not as simple as supply and demand, its having a supply you can pay less and treat worse. Americans have fought a long time for fair wages and decent working conditions, vacations, overtime pay, insurance benefits, retirement plans, flex hours, friendly work environments. These are not concerns of immigrant labor because even working here for lower wages and crappy work conditions is far better than what they left.
What you are advocating or making excuses for is basically allowing slave labor so employers can make bigger profits.
On one thing we can agree. The motivation of employers...
Find Americans who can pass a drug test and a background check. Then let's see if they'll change soiled linens for minimum wage.
But they have to pass that drug test.
Good one. Forgot all about that challenge as well!
I used to pay about $40 for drug tests, and it was always hard to take that time, waste that money, always wondering what idiot thinks they will pass even if they are taking drugs...
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