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Old 10-13-2017, 08:29 AM
 
51,670 posts, read 25,927,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Nothing unusual about this. The job of a hotel bellman is to transport guest baggage to/ from guest rooms.
Very common to use service/ freight elevators to do so, especially in large hotel complexes that seek to avoid inconveniencing guests by using guest elevators.

This hotel adjoins a convention center. Exhibitors bring in tons of crap. Las Vegas and Orlando are major convention destinations. It's their bread and butter. Exhibitors and attendees tend to check in before events and/ or remain in these cities after events. Their crap has to be stored somewhere.

Las Vegas hosts more gun shows than any other place. Exhibitors bring in massive number of firearms for these shows.

Most seasoned exhibitors are less likely to check their crap and risk employee theft. It's more secure in their rooms. Declining housekeeping is not unusual.

Thus far, I am not aware of anything related to the shooter's behavior in the hotel that would have set off a red flag before he began the rampage.

If there is factual evidence to support multiple shooters it will be revealed.

The Internet was full of initial reports that shooting originated from multiple floors. Some claimed eye wittness reports. Yet no other windows were broken. Guess there were shooters dangling from ropes off the roof top or something.

No end of trade shows and conventions. Some at Mandalay Bay. Las Vegas Conventions, Official Site

People are lugging no end of cases, exhibits, displays stands, handouts, ... to their hotel rooms, including gun cases are there are several gun shows a month.

Imagine Automotive Aftermarket Industry Week.

To expect that a bell person would be able to deduce from this guy's luggage that something was amiss is a stretch.

Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 10-13-2017 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Barrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Personally done it with guns ?
Hotels do not scan guest luggage or bags.

There are reports that Wynn Casino ( not hotel) started to " wand" and randomly check bags before admitting patrons into their casino after the 10/1 shooting. Public reaction seems to be a mixed bag. Some feel safer while other don't like the inconvenience/ intrusion and took their business elsewhere.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Barrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Local PD should have had a man on his house at all times.

Anything less is beyond incompetence. That is shady AF.

All his properties should be monitored and all his relatives/known close associates should still have a tail on them.
LE acquired a search warrant for the Reno property and used it. Seems reasonable every inch of this property has been filmed and printed and anything that might remotely be connected to the shooting has been removed and secured.

I have no idea if this property qualifies as a crime scene in Nevada, given no crime occured at this property and it was not the shooter's primary residence.

This case will likely never be closed.

I have read the GF is on the no fly list. This may or may not be true given the endless unconfirmed blah blah being reported.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:06 AM
 
13,515 posts, read 17,067,204 times
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Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
I know many of us are coming up with all kinds of theories. Many of them speculation unless we happen to be part of the investigation. Some things definitely don't add up, but again we only can come to that conclusion from the information that we have access to.


Most of the things I've heard have been easily debunked. One seems a bit sketchy and that is a video showing a person doing what looks like shooting into the crowd, although there is no muzzle flash or gun seen , it just appears that he is in the position of shooting. Who can believe what they see on youtube though. I thought the FL nightclub shooter had help as well , and I was wrong. So the same thing probably with this one, what is that theory Occam's Razor ?


I did want to add this article written by Bob Livingston. It's long but worth a read.


"A tactical analysis of the Vegas shooting"


I set aside some time for more details of the Vegas shooting to emerge before writing this article. A few important data points have been released, but I have to say that this remains one of the most confusing terror incidents in decades.
The tactical and strategic thought applied in this attack denotes a sophisticated and experienced shooter, yet, we are told by Stephen Paddock's family and girlfriend that there was no indication that he had such knowledge or experience. There were some advanced tactical decisions involved in every aspect of the staging of the event, yet, there were also a few glaring mistakes that do not fit. Beyond this, there is evidence that Paddock (the alleged shooter) did not act alone, yet, the official mainstream narrative continues to tell us that he was a lone wolf.
Now, every terror event these days produces an endless supply of alternative theories, some practical and some ridiculous. I will be keeping my theories to a minimum here, because I don't think they serve much purpose in this instance beyond comfort for those that desperately want explanations. What I will be doing is presenting some questions and pointing out inconsistencies. My goal is merely to show that there is evidence which indicates far more complexity to the Vegas shooting than the mainstream media and federal officials are willing to discuss.
First, lets look at how the attack was staged versus what we are told about the background of Stephen Paddock.
Mass shooter psychological profile

It is important to note that mass shootings are an extremely rare occurrence despite the propaganda often poured onto the pages of the mainstream media. Psychological profiling of the people behind these crimes is difficult because the number of candidates is very small. There are, however, some common themes.
For example — many mass shooters are motivated by revenge or envy. Shooters often exhibit signs of sociopathy, a self-centered nature and a lack of compassion along with past instances of abuse and violence towards other people and animals. There is also a previous history of mental illness. In most cases there is a "triggering event" which leads to a psychological break and a reaction to violence.
According to the personal accounts from the people that knew Paddock, including his girlfriend, none of these attributes seems to fit. Marilou Danley described him as a "kind and caring man," stating that he had never taken any action which would have led her to believe he was capable of such violence. The only factor that stands as evidence of a potential psychological break is the fact that Paddock was recently prescribed the anti-anxiety drug diazepam, which has been known to cause aggression when taken in larger doses.
Did Paddock take this drug because of unrelated anxiety and did it trigger his shooting spree? Or, was his anxiety caused by the fact that he was already planning a shooting spree and the drug was meant to "take the edge off" so he could more easily follow through with the attack?
Paddock was prescribed the drug once in 2016 and on June 21st of this year. That said, the meticulous planning that went into this attack, as well as possible evidence that Paddock was renting rooms adjacent to major musical events for some time, shows that this was not initiated by a psychological break. Rather, there was a considerable level of conscious critical thought and foresight.
There is also no available evidence of domestic instability or financial troubles. Paddock was a multi-millionaire with a successful real estate investment portfolio. He was a former postal worker and tax auditor, as well as an employee for defense contractor Lockheed Martin (I have not seen any statements by Lockheed on what exactly he did for them). It should be noted that Paddock, at age 64, was one of the oldest mass shooters in recent history.
Paddocks father, a bank robber on the FBI's Most Wanted list, was not present for the most of the early lives of the children according to his brother, Eric Paddock, which undermines the notion of poor environmental influences.
According to his brother, Stephen also had no strong ideological or religious leanings and simply "didn't care" about such matters. Meaning, no apparent ties to extremist views. He had no social media profiles and police claim they have found nothing in his home computers or phones to suggest a philosophical or political motive. So far I have not seen a single concrete and verified piece of evidence proving Paddock believed in anything other than making money, gambling and traveling the world for fun.
I personally find this extremely hard to believe. Stephen Paddock, for all intents and purposes, was positively the perfect "Gray Man," a ghost that blended completely into the background, so much so that his own family and girlfriend had no idea that he was amassing the weapons and training needed to pull off the Vegas attack.
The tactical know-how of a nobody

This is the area which brings up the most questions for me in terms of the Vegas incident. As an avid tactical shooter and long distance shooter, I immediately recognized some strange factors. For instance, the choice of his perch, two adjacent rooms on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel, was rather effective for a number of reasons.
If you have the chance to study counter-sniping methodologies or talk with veterans involved in counter-sniping in urban areas, you will learn that the most successful snipers tend to choose mid-ground perches to take shots from. Meaning, they never choose the highest points nor the lowest points, and never shoot from the closest points or the furthest points. Well trained snipers can and do sometimes shoot from 1,000 yards or more, but they prefer to shoot from the "sweet spot" around 300-400 yards away at an elevated point from an expedient hide in the middle of a building or structure.
They do this because when people (including trained combat soldiers) are shot at, their eyes naturally tend to scan for the highest points in the background and the closest points in the foreground first. Choosing mid-ground positions makes snipers more difficult to pick out quickly and also harder for the average person to shoot back at.
I would also note that average, untrained mass shooters are more likely to enter a crowd and start shooting at point blank range in order to ensure hits on targets. Paddock chose the position of a trained shooter, which you can see a photo of in this article by The New Yorker. It was not the best possible position, but a very good one.
The first room in the Mandalay is in the corner of the 32nd floor with a view of the concert area and the north. It has a diagonal range of around 400 yards and a linear range of around 240 yards. When firing from an elevated position snipers range targets and bullet drop according to the shorter linear range or "true ballistic distance" (base of the ground to the target) rather than the direct range from their perch to the target. This is because gravity only affects the bullet over the true ballistic distance and elevation in a scope must be adjusted to that distance. It is not as easy as it seems to hit targets from an elevated position, even with an "automatic" weapon.
It has been recently stated by Las Vegas police that the "note" found near Paddock's body was scribbled with calculations for bullet drop from his position. These calculations can be done with newer laser rangefinders, but Stephen apparently chose to do them on paper. Las Vegas Detective Casey Clarkson was on the grounds of the concert during the attack, and recounted "I'm like, how is he so accurate" (in reference to Paddock) in an interview with 60 Minutes. Yet another piece of evidence showing that Paddock (or someone else) had extensive shooter training.
The two adjacent rooms at the Mandalay offered extensive coverage of possible approaches for first responders. The first room gave the shooter good coverage of the concert and the north approach of Las Vegas Blvd. The second room gave the shooter a very wide angle of coverage to the south approach to the Mandalay as well as the main entrance of the hotel. More tactical know-how on display.
Finally, Paddock allegedly placed small surveillance cameras in the hall approaching his room. A valuable tool which a shooter could use to surprise first responders, maintaining a longer period of shooter effectiveness as well as possibly allowing for an escape. Las Vegas police are quoted as stating that it appeared as though Paddock had planned to evade capture. This fits in line with the rest of his tactical staging. His suicide does not.
Things that don't add up

Again, I am not going to enter into much discussion on theory, here. I am only going to cite some instances of evidence and narrative that, for me, do not make sense. Let's begin...
The motive: No apparent motive. Paddock led a life of near luxury, had a happy relationship with his girlfriend and gave no indication to anyone of any instability or ideological affiliation. He had no criminal record. He was also well beyond the average age range of people commonly involved in such crimes. He does not fit any of the characteristics of mass shooters.
The arsenal: Paddock put a substantial amount of thought and planning into the position of his perch as well as a potential escape. He had the knowledge and experience to calculate accurate shots from an elevated position at distance. But, for some reason he decided it was warranted to sneak at least 23 guns in ten separate suitcases to his room at the Mandalay Bay. A person with the intelligence displayed in the planning of this event would know that most of these rifles were not needed in the slightest to achieve the effect desired. They are dead weight, and moving them into the Mandalay only presented unnecessary risk of discovery. Unless, of course, the original plan involved multiple shooters.
A strange year?: Family and acquaintances have mentioned Paddock's propensity for "disappearing" in the year previous to the Vegas attack. And, there is the fact that 33 of the 47 firearms Paddock owned were purchased in the last 12 months.
Security calls: Paddock called hotel security at least twice to complain about "loud music" in the floor below him the day of the shooting. Why would a mass shooter care, or take the risk of drawing too much attention to himself?
The windows: Why, after so much careful planning, did Paddock expose his position by smashing two separate windows in his adjacent hotel rooms? There are other ways of providing a shooter's loophole with less exposure? Very odd.
Room alarm leads security right to Paddock: The Las Vegas Sheriffs Department indicates that security was originally led directly to the floor that Paddock was shooting from by a "door alarm" that was set off by someone three rooms down from him. Who set off this alarm which conveniently helped to give away Paddock's position early?
The surveillance cameras: Paddock had a head start on security, SWAT and anyone else that approached his rooms. He fired at hotel security through his door injuring employee Jesus Campos. He also had thousands of rounds of ammunition including .308 rounds which could easily be fired through several walls on the floor of his hotel room. Why did Paddock prepare for an escape, use his cameras to allow him to fire at hotel security through his door, equip rounds capable of annihilating any SWAT team that stacked up to breach his room, but decided to shoot himself instead before SWAT ever entered? Some people might argue that there is no logic to the mind of a "madman," but again, I've seen no evidence that Paddock was insane beyond the criminal act itself.
Multiple shooters?: Las Vegas County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo is quoted as saying that it was only logical to assume given the evidence that Paddock "had some help at some point" in the staging of the Vegas attack. To me, this is absolutely clear in the tactical planning. Paddock does not appear to have the background or training to have chosen and staged the perch.
The report suggesting that a phone charger was found that did not belong to Paddock has since been refuted by police, as well as the report that his card key was used to access his room while Paddock was gone. Of course, hotel surveillance would prove this one way or the other and should be made available to the public.
Still, there are multiple accounts by witnesses that there may have been a second shooter, including the initial reports given by first responders on the scene, who were told a shooter was on the 29th floor as well as the 32nd floor. All of these accounts have been dismissed as a result of panic and the fog of war.
The mystery woman: A witness on site at the concert stated that a woman (and her apparent boyfriend) approached people near the stage 45 minutes before the attack, telling them that "they were all going to die." She was later escorted out of the venue by security. Who was this woman? Was she trying to menace the concertgoers or warn them? Or, was it all simply coincidence?
Conclusion

In my view, there is simply no way that a man with Stephen Paddock's history and background committed the Vegas shooting alone. There is no motive, no clear evidence of mental illness, no ideological markers and nothing to be gained. The tactical expertise displayed in most cases shows considerable training. Theories will abound. It is possible that he was used. It is also possible that he was secretly radicalized, as ISIS has continuously asserted since the attack. Or, perhaps he never pulled a single trigger and somehow ended up dead in a room full of guns overlooking Las Vegas Blvd. and dozens of dead concertgoers.
The most disturbing aspect of this event and the mainstream narrative, though, is what it insinuates. It insinuates that anyone no matter how seemingly normal could one day simply "snap" and murder crowds of people with impunity. It is the anti-Second Amendment narrative personified, because if "anyone" is capable of such horror, and motive is nonexistent, then the mere existence of firearm access means that we are surrounded by millions of latent mass shooters. Meaning, we are to fear everyone around us at all times. I will write about the solution to this problem in my next article. In the meantime, I suggest everyone ponder on the oddities of this event and continue to ask questions.

High functioning psychopath who kept his compulsions at bay through obsessive gambling but eventually wanted the final thrill.

It isn't about taking anyone's guns. If Sandy Hook didn't take anyone's guns what will?
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Barrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
It still looks bad for the hotel . There were other sources saying his room had been comped too but not sure if true but seems likely if he gambled so often .
How is whether he paid for his suite or had been comped relevant?

MGM/ Mandalay Bay will forever be stigmatized by this event no matter what. The stigma will likely repel some and attract others.

What becomes of this suite, hotel wing and the 32nd floor once LE releases control back to MGM? Some online speculation the suite and surrounding area will be turned into a memorial.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:13 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I said awhile back that where this mass shooting incident is vastly different than the others is the amount of money involved behind all the key players (hotel, shooter, Vegas as a whole).

I'm still following this but honestly don't believe we'll ever know what really happened. And that's not even to say anything overtly nefarious has gone on in the investigation. There's just too much money on the table to believe things aren't going to be influenced in some shape or form.
Sadly I believe you may be correct. I think liability will stay with just the shooter and the injured/dead will be compensated from the various charity funds that are now in the millions. Attorneys of course will make millions on this as they always do.

I also agree with you that the exact "why" will either never be found or at the least not for a long time...
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
High functioning psychopath who kept his compulsions at bay through obsessive gambling but eventually wanted the final thrill.

It isn't about taking anyone's guns. If Sandy Hook didn't take anyone's guns what will?
You are right, nothing will.

Just because that is for the drills.

Sure, it was just a single activated shill.

For a shilling more how many more for thrills.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:17 AM
 
29,663 posts, read 14,769,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
High functioning psychopath who kept his compulsions at bay through obsessive gambling but eventually wanted the final thrill.

It isn't about taking anyone's guns. If Sandy Hook didn't take anyone's guns what will?

Sandy Hook... another tragedy that more laws would have had no effect on.
I'm surprised the Vegas shooter didn't load one of his planes up with as much Tannerite as he possible could and flew into the crowd.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:32 AM
 
465 posts, read 237,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 High functioning psychopath who kept his compulsions at bay through obsessive gambling but eventually wanted the final thrill.

It isn't about taking anyone's guns. If Sandy Hook didn't take anyone's guns what will?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Sandy Hook... another tragedy that more laws would have had no effect on.
I'm surprised the Vegas shooter didn't load one of his planes up with as much Tannerite as he possible could and flew into the crowd.
That is because he believed in his upper hand, that he would be saved.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Barrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
article provides some add'l details into strategy of CCTV systems and camera deployment as well as what a former security officer at the Mandalay had to say about their communication procedures...

In Las Vegas, the casino is always watching
Casinos everywhere have a high level of surveillance. Both the general public and employees are risks.

Hotels anywhere generally do not have cameras in guest hallways. That will likely change going forward.

It's not clear when/ if / how /who the security guard reported being shot.

We do know an engineer arrived on the floor after the guard had been shot while the shooter was firing into the hallway. Was the gap seconds or minutes and what is the relationship between interior and exterior shots?

The initial timeline reported the guard was shot after the exterior shooting ceased.

The revised timeline reported the guard was shot before the exterior shooting began.

MGM immediately challenged the revised timeline.

Reportedly, MGM is now claiming the interior/ exterior shooting was simultaneous or within seconds of each action.

Well positioned interior hallway cameras with accurate time stamps would have been helpful. The design of this and many hotel wings and hallways would require many, many cameras.
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