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Guns are very, very restricted in most of Europe, but terrorists still get guns illegally, and use them like in the relatively recent Paris attacks using illegal, full auto AK-47's. Criminals, and the insane don't follow gun laws. Using a gun for a violent act is already illegal, and we see thousands die in inner city gang violence every year. The guns are obtained, and used illegally, but that doesn't stop them.
I don't give a damn about this silly splitting of hairs over "militias". The reality is we all have a right to keep and bear arms. De facto, regardless of de jure. It's there, we have it, the courts have interpreted it, it's fact. It will not be changed or deleted. We have the right to keep and bear arms.
We need to keep that right, even if there are 2-5 sociopathic massacres per year forever. Europe is irrelevant, the rest of the world is irrelevant. America is relevant and in America we have the right to keep and bear arms and will not surrender that right period.
In Europe the preferred method seems to be car attacks or sometimes even guns, as in Charlie Hebdo and Hyperkosher, the concert massacre and the Brussels Airport massacre. All methods seem to do the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Crazy people who decide to go out in a blaze of depravity will always be with us, and will always find a way to take 1-200 people with them, guns or no guns.
We need to kill them and move on. That's the solution, and there is really no debate.
I argued this repeatedly, including here, Should Serious Criminals Die Faster? You won't find any argument from me on that. I think we also need to look at involuntary civil commitment and criminal responsibility for those who know about a prospective serious crime and enable.
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Anyone who uses the term "gun violence" instead of "violence" is a moron and should be ignored. What about baseball-bat violence?
Agreed. And one of these days I'll point that out to my Rabbi. There have been all kinds of workshops on gun violence, in the context of an affluent Jewish suburban congregation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Liberals are retarded.
Careful there. I'm personally a left-wing extremist. Among my most admired are Maxine Waters and Che Guevara.
You are correct! I really believe that those who stockpile guns have a serious mental disorder. There is no other explanation for a person to want to have so many guns. Either they are flat out crazy, or at the least- VERY insecure. Now, let all the 2nd amendment advocates scream and pitch a fit at me.
Im a shooter and own a total of 4 rifles and 2 hand guns. I don't understand the need for 30 plus guns either. I also don't understand why people want yard gnomes, dumb ass flags on their front porch, truck nuts hanging off their trucks, or go crazy Turing their house into a freak show every halloween.
I don't understand the need for some people to worry about who is sleeping with who or for people to lecture others on what kind of car to own.
Some folks collect guns. My older brother for example. I tease him and say the Wyoming National guard calls him to borrow guns when ever they have to mobilize. He has never broken any laws, never shot anyone and never threatened anyone. Tell me again why he should be punished for a crime he never committed?
The left is big on not judging everyone based upon the actions of the minority. I agree with them. Too bad when it comes to gun owners suddenly all need to be punished and all are bad.
The rest of the world has tried and their efforts show it is hopeless. Strict gun control is a demonstrated failure all over the developed world. There is nothing we can do to reduce gun violence. It's the same with health care. It is impossible to provide universal health care at a cost a first world country can afford.
Oh we have our problems too, however you could add together everybody killed in terrorist attacks in the UK during the last 25 years together (including IRA attacks) and it still won't come anywhere near the amount of people shot to death in the US in just one year.
Our country will not address the societal, and cultural issues of inner city gang violence, and mental illness that causes suicides with guns. We have already said this many times. These are the VAST majority of violent acts by PEOPLE using a gun. It is a people problem, not a tool problem.
Life is too precious to lose to gun violence.
But not to medical malpractice?
Not to incurable diseases as a result of being promiscuous?
Not to drug addiction and poor life choices?
Not to automobile accidents?
Not to any other leading causes of death? Focus solely on firearms? Or focus on firearms to disarm the populace to instill a dystopia of training wheels bubbles padded floors and walls? If that's progressive... that's turning everyone into diaper filling toddlers.
Firearms are as responsible for deaths as pens and pencils are for spelling and mathematical errors.
They're an instrument. The pen or pencil can not cause a spelling error due to the end users limited vocabulary and spelling skills. Nor cause a mathematical error because the end user did not carry a number over or count properly. Just like I can shout at my weapons and they still won't jump up chamber a round and discharge itself.
I can't rationalize a "human being" carrying out such a heinous act. But you seem to think it's perfectly okay to be devoid the right to protect myself and others from those like them... where is the rationale in that? To create a dependent and weak society reliant on someone with a badge and gun? To trust your life in the hands of an officer who in one breath is racist, lacks proper training, quick to shoot, and to get there in a matter of seconds to boot?
So much for land of the free and home of the brave. Turn them in guys and gals. Because the softer side of society is scared.
Firearms are the only thing designed specifically to kill and maim.
Pencils are not designed to kill and maim. They are designed to draw with. What don't you get?
Completely ridiculous argument.
It isn't easy, but this man had millions of dollars. This wasn't just some unemployed broke guy who got mad at the world and went on a shooting spree. With the resources this man had, who thinks he couldn't have gotten a conversion?
He did not convert them, he took the easier route and just bought the readily available bump-stocks. Not everyone has connections to the under-world where you can hire a criminal gun smith to do the conversion on 28 rifles.
Can't prevent, can only make less severe.
As the song says,
"God is great, beer is good, people are crazy."
If he went out purchased a huge four wheel drive, lift kit, pushbars etc.... Didn't appear to me there would have been anything preventing him from driving right into a crowd of 22K people. How severe would that be?
Whether it's a box cutter, truck, fertilizer/diesel fuel or a gun the effectiveness of these incidents are not driven by the object used. It's driven by the planning, opportunity and to some degree fate. If someone wants to kill a lot of people their only limitations is their imagination.
Our country will not address the societal, and cultural issues of inner city gang violence, and mental illness that causes suicides with guns. We have already said this many times. These are the VAST majority of violent acts by PEOPLE using a gun. It is a people problem, not a tool problem.
Fair enough but even if you take away these particular killings the death rate by firearms in the US is STILL much much higher than any other first world country. Its obvious, the more guns you have the more likely it is people are going to get shot, its not rocket science, the alarming thing to people in 'other' first world countries is the perceived lack of desire in the USA to do anything about it.
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