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Old 10-13-2017, 12:38 PM
 
2,678 posts, read 1,702,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Sure. As I said elsewhere, the liberals are going to throw everything into this battle. They literally can't afford to lose this one.

But, but, govt subsidies are the entire purpose for leftist Big Govt! It can't exist without them!
I suspect this won’t be a battle. And it’s gonna take months before any changes go into affect but Trump will use the recent event of the day as usual to deflect from the outcome.

 
Old 10-13-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,741 posts, read 7,623,084 times
Reputation: 15011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Sure. As I said elsewhere, the liberals are going to throw everything into this battle. They literally can't afford to lose this one.

But, but, govt subsidies are the entire purpose for leftist Big Govt! It can't exist without them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
I suspect this won’t be a battle.
Well, you're right. The Democrats will fight a WAR.

Or, as another recent big-govt progressive said in August 1990, "We will fight the Mother of all Battles."
 
Old 10-13-2017, 12:45 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,496,688 times
Reputation: 6777
If there is a mass amount of people sans health insurance in the summer of 2018, which isn't that far off, instead of MAGA rallies, it will be the angry villagers chasing FrankenTrump!
 
Old 10-13-2017, 12:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,741 posts, read 7,623,084 times
Reputation: 15011
Democrats are reacting badly to President Trump's plan to eliminate the health care subsidies that are the backbone of Obamacare. They will throw everything they have into their battle to keep transferring wealth.

Providing subsidies from taxpayers' money is now the entire purpose of Big Government. Transferring wealth from people to earned more, to people who earned less.

It's what all of leftist government is about. Whether it's done by inventing the "Progressive" Income Tax, or sending money to people who can't pay their heating bill this winter, or giving taxpayer money to people who can't afford their (govt-mandated) health care. Leftist politicians absolutely depend on using such subsidies to buy the votes of people who otherwise would want nothing to do with them.

And such Wealth Transfer is completely unconstitutional, of course.

The Constitution gives the Fed govt the power to charge and collect taxes, of course. But it does NOT give it the power to simply turn around and hand that money to other people in the population, unless it gives to everybody equally. Which Obamacare is expressly designed NOT to do.

The Constitution expressly states there are only three things that tax money can be used for:
1.) To pay the debts of the U.S. government;
2.) To provide for the defense of the U.S.;
3.) To provide for the General Welfare of the United States.

"General Welfare" had a specific meaning back in 1789. It meant programs that would help everybody equally. As opposed to "local welfare", which in 1789 meant smaller groups, what we now call Special Interests. Paying out tax money to only part of the population is strictly forbidden by this part of the Constitution.

And yet that is exactly the purpose of "progressive" programs, from progressive taxes to Obamacare: To make some people pay more, while others pay less or nothing, for the same service. And then transferring that money to the ones who pay less... because there are a lot more of them, than people who pay more... but they all have an equal vote.

Now President Trump is talking about eliminating the Federal subsidies for people who can't afford Obama's govt-mandated health care.

This hits Democrats where they live. Be prepared for the Mother Of All Battles to be fought in the Press and other Democrat organs. They literally can't afford to lose this one.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 12:54 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,496,688 times
Reputation: 6777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Democrats are reacting badly to President Trump's plan to eliminate the health care subsidies that are the backbone of Obamacare.


Providing subsidies from tazpayers' money is now the entire purpose of Big Government. Transferring wealth from people to earned more, to people who earned less.

It's what all of leftist government is about. Whether it's done by inventing the "Progressive" Income Tax, or sending money to people who can't pay their heating bill this winter, or giving taxpayer money to people who can't afford their (govt-mandated) health care. Leftist politicians absolutely depend on using such subsidies to buy the votes of people who otherwise would want nothing to do with them.

And such Wealth Transfer is completely unconstitutional, of course.

The Constitution gives the Fed govt the power to charge and collect taxes, of course. But it does NOT give it the power to simply turn around and hand that money to other people in the population, unless it gives to everybody equally. Which Obamacare is expressly designed NOT to do.

The Constitution expressly states there are only three things that tax money can be used for:
1.) To pay the debts of the U.S. government;
2.) To provide for the defense of the U.S.;
3.) To provide for the General Welfare of the United States.

"General Welfare" had a specific meaning back in 1789. It meant programs that would help everybody equally. As opposed to "local welfare", which in 1789 meant smaller groups, what we now call Special Interests. Paying out tax money to only part of the population is strictly forbidden by this part of the Constitution.

And yet that is exactly the purpose of "progressive" programs, from progressive taxes to Obamacare: To make some people pay more, while others pay less or nothing, for the same service. And then transferring that money to the ones who pay less... because there are a lot more of them, than people who pay more... but they all have an equal vote.

Now President Trump is talking about eliminating the Federal subsidies for people who can't afford Obama's govt-mandated health care.

This hits Democrats where they live. Be prepared for the Mother Of All Battles to be fought in the Press and other Democrat organs. They literally can't afford to lose this one.
Government is all about who's doing the wealth transfer to whom!
 
Old 10-13-2017, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Concord NC
1,863 posts, read 1,655,280 times
Reputation: 5175
If someone assesses the current state of the ACA objectively - not with the religious faith in it, how can it be defended? There are aspects of what it was supposedly intended to do which make sense if implemented in a sensible way (e.g. address those with pre-existing conditions), and aspects which are just wrong (e.g. mandate). It's a mess but no one is willing to be seen as the first Apostate and help nail a new approach on the door.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,496,688 times
Reputation: 6777
Quote:
Originally Posted by RP2C View Post
If someone assesses the current state of the ACA objectively - not with the religious faith in it, how can it be defended? There are aspects of what it was supposedly intended to do which make sense if implemented in a sensible way (e.g. address those with pre-existing conditions), and aspects which are just wrong (e.g. mandate). It's a mess but no one is willing to be seen as the first Apostate and help nail a new approach on the door.
No, they'd rather burn down the church!
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:06 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,917,076 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by RP2C View Post
If someone assesses the current state of the ACA objectively - not with the religious faith in it, how can it be defended? There are aspects of what it was supposedly intended to do which make sense if implemented in a sensible way (e.g. address those with pre-existing conditions), and aspects which are just wrong (e.g. mandate). It's a mess but no one is willing to be seen as the first Apostate and help nail a new approach on the door.
You can't have a stable market without all of those features, though.


That is really the issue at the core of all HC debates, and illustrates why it hasn't gone anywhere. No one wants to admit that we can't get the "Good stuff" without the "bad stuff".

There is likely no solution that gets us cheaper rates and no mandate, and more coverage.

Some people might suggest cheaper rates and less coverage - but that is going to be very unpopular. Likely as unpopular, if not more so, than what we currently have with the ACA.



I think they're all going about it the wrong way...no one is talking about HC costs. It's all about coverage...when the real problem of escalating rates has to do with escalating HC costs. If you can figure out how to address that, then you can make some real progress here. But no one wants to do that...
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
3,365 posts, read 5,244,125 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
If there is a mass amount of people sans health insurance in the summer of 2018, which isn't that far off, instead of MAGA rallies, it will be the angry villagers chasing FrankenTrump!
I have never been able to understand why people are always screaming about insurance all the time.

My sister pays $3270 a year for employer provided insurance for her family of 6, husband and 4 kids. I pay $350 a year, plus the no insurance penalty, for my family of 3, that is an annual physical and blood work. Last time I needed to go to the hospital was a year ago when my son broke his leg and that only cost me $1200 at the hospital and another $2200 for all the castings, none of which would have been insurance paid with today's deductibles. If I had paid for insurance plus all that I would be WAY worse off. Hell it only cost $3500 for the birth of my son and that includes the 40 weeks of doctors visits and ultrasounds/blood work and the C-section.

Insurance is a scam and not even the real problem with our health costs to begin with. Wish we would get off this insurance kick and focus on really cutting and controlling costs; prescriptions, hospitals, ambulances, and specialists are the real problem.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:13 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,496,688 times
Reputation: 6777
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
You can't have a stable market without all of those features, though.


That is really the issue at the core of all HC debates, and illustrates why it hasn't gone anywhere. No one wants to admit that we can't get the "Good stuff" without the "bad stuff".

There is likely no solution that gets us cheaper rates and no mandate, and more coverage.

Some people might suggest cheaper rates and less coverage - but that is going to be very unpopular. Likely as unpopular, if not more so, than what we currently have with the ACA.



I think they're all going about it the wrong way...no one is talking about HC costs. It's all about coverage...when the real problem of escalating rates has to do with escalating HC costs. If you can figure out how to address that, then you can make some real progress here. But no one wants to do that...
Alot of the healthcare costs are simply, "what amount of money can I charge ...and get away with it?"
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