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Old 12-20-2017, 10:50 AM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,504,886 times
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Quote:
If tax cuts are such a powerful job creating tool, then it begs the question why more economists don't argue for massive tax cuts?
Lazy argument. Show us some examples of what it is you are talking about.

The reality is economists are partisan, just like the rest of us. Some will have pro-tax cut views, others will not.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-as-we-think/
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,114 posts, read 34,747,185 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
True. And I'm not glad that people other than high blue state earners will be hurt, but I'm glad they passed it. They rushed it through, and gave no thought to many of the implications, such as the real estate investor windfall, but the voters are going to get wise by November 2018, and today in Trump's press conference, he stupidly claimed that "they repealed Obamacare," in the bill, so when nobody can afford health insurance and many have lost it, Trump will own that too. He just gave the Dems a great sound bite.
The voters are already wise to it. A majority oppose the bill. The bill is being passed over the objection of a majority of voters and the Republicans don't care because (a) this bill is for their donor class and (b) they can use the resulting budget deficits as justification for spending cuts in the future. This is a long-term play to hamper the progressive agenda.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:55 AM
 
45,585 posts, read 27,209,359 times
Reputation: 23898
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If tax cuts are such a powerful job creating tool, then it begs the question why more economists don't argue for massive tax cuts?
Envy? Perceived unfairness? The rich won't spend it?

The cut can create jobs depending on the environment. Trump is improving that as well, so tey will likely invest in more endeavors.

What do they say?
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,317 posts, read 26,236,916 times
Reputation: 15654
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
Lazy argument. Show us some examples of what it is you are talking about.

The reality is economists are partisan, just like the rest of us. Some will have pro-tax cut views, others will not.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-as-we-think/


You should listen to David Stockman, not quite an economist but an expert on tax cuts. Jeffrey Sachs, Paul Krugman and several others. I didn't see an economist that supports this other than Laffer but I am sure there are a few. Just like climate science you can always find a denier.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:58 AM
 
3,992 posts, read 2,460,570 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
You do realize it is the precise opposite, right?

Dividends and share buybacks are what companies do with their profits whenever they do not want to re-invest that capital into the business.

This is like Finance 101


they don't get it, they just ape the talking points they hear, somehow missing the Cohn meeting where all the CEO's said they would take the gift and return to shareholders not reinvest it in the business.


I'm waiting for the one poster on here who claims to be a whiz in this stuff to come tell me again how Buffet structures his payments from BRK in one specific way and somehow the means entire economy is doing the same thing. I love when that guy posts his drivel.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:58 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,745,293 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
Lazy argument. Show us some examples of what it is you are talking about.

The reality is economists are partisan, just like the rest of us. Some will have pro-tax cut views, others will not.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-as-we-think/
http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

Question A: If the US enacts a tax bill similar to those currently moving through the House and Senate — and assuming no other changes in tax or spending policy — US GDP will be substantially higher a decade from now than under the status quo.

Strongly Agree: 0%
Agree: 2%
------
Uncertain: 36%
------
Disagree : 33%
Strongly Disagree: 19%

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...l/participants

"our panel was chosen to include distinguished experts with a keen interest in public policy from the major areas of economics, to be geographically diverse, and to include Democrats, Republicans and Independents as well as older and younger scholars. The panel members are all senior faculty at the most elite research universities in the United States. The panel includes Nobel Laureates, John Bates Clark Medalists, fellows of the Econometric society, past Presidents of both the American Economics Association and American Finance Association, past Democratic and Republican members of the President's Council of Economics, and past and current editors of the leading journals in the profession."
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,114 posts, read 34,747,185 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
Lazy argument. Show us some examples of what it is you are talking about.

The reality is economists are partisan, just like the rest of us. Some will have pro-tax cut views, others will not.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-as-we-think/
You're right. That's why the University of Chicago assembled a panel of economists cutting across all partisan lines. 41 of 42 said that the tax cut would not pay for itself through higher economic growth. Only 2% agree that the GOP tax cut will lead to higher GDP growth. Virtually all agree that it will substantially increase the deficit.

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reforms
http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

To give you some sense of the composition of the panel.

Quote:
To that end, our panel was chosen to include distinguished experts with a keen interest in public policy from the major areas of economics, to be geographically diverse, and to include Democrats, Republicans and Independents as well as older and younger scholars. The panel members are all senior faculty at the most elite research universities in the United States. The panel includes Nobel Laureates, John Bates Clark Medalists, fellows of the Econometric society, past Presidents of both the American Economics Association and American Finance Association, past Democratic and Republican members of the President's Council of Economics, and past and current editors of the leading journals in the profession. This selection process has the advantage of not only providing a set of panelists whose names will be familiar to other economists and the media, but also delivers a group with impeccable qualifications to speak on public policy matters.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:59 AM
 
3,992 posts, read 2,460,570 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Envy? Perceived unfairness? The rich won't spend it?

The cut can create jobs depending on the environment. Trump is improving that as well, so tey will likely invest in more endeavors.

What do they say?


at the Gary Cohn meeting all the CEO's said they'd simply return the money to shareholders, so kinda kills your argument.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:01 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,745,293 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

Question A: If the US enacts a tax bill similar to those currently moving through the House and Senate — and assuming no other changes in tax or spending policy — US GDP will be substantially higher a decade from now than under the status quo.

Strongly Agree: 0%
Agree: 2%
------
Uncertain: 36%
------
Disagree : 33%
Strongly Disagree: 19%

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...l/participants

"our panel was chosen to include distinguished experts with a keen interest in public policy from the major areas of economics, to be geographically diverse, and to include Democrats, Republicans and Independents as well as older and younger scholars. The panel members are all senior faculty at the most elite research universities in the United States. The panel includes Nobel Laureates, John Bates Clark Medalists, fellows of the Econometric society, past Presidents of both the American Economics Association and American Finance Association, past Democratic and Republican members of the President's Council of Economics, and past and current editors of the leading journals in the profession."
In other words, among both conservative and liberal economists surveyed by the University of Chicago (a well-known bastion of conservative economics), only a mere 2% of responses believed that the tax bill would substantially increase GDP.

So it's clear that economists are not supporting the tax bill. At this point all conservatives can do is claim that their party leaders know more about economics than economists do. (Or do what they normally do, and just ignore everything they don't like, and keep repeating the same things over and over and over again.)
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,114 posts, read 34,747,185 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

Question A: If the US enacts a tax bill similar to those currently moving through the House and Senate — and assuming no other changes in tax or spending policy — US GDP will be substantially higher a decade from now than under the status quo.

Strongly Agree: 0%
Agree: 2%

------

Uncertain: 36%

------

Disagree : 33%
Strongly Disagree: 19%
I just posted this. "B-b-b-but, it feels like it's going to create a bajillion jobs!" Imagine if NASA just shot rockets into space without relying on any type of analysis of collected data.
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