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Completely agree, just not deporting them leave alone legal permanent status without citizenship is way more than generous enough. If it weren't about giving illegals and legal immigrants voting rights, democrats would be totally against it.
I do think permanently barring them from voting should be part of any deal.
I do think permanently barring them from voting should be part of any deal.
I'm coming to the conclusion that whatever we do with immigration, merit-based, reductions, amnesty etc, we should just stop giving out full citizenship, voting rights and birthright citizenship. I know democrats will never rest and let that happen, but it is the only fair solution. Democrats have turned immigration into a corrupted ethno-partisanship and identity politics issue. That's the only reason for the Democrat platform and their support for mass immigration.
I have a relative married to someone not a citizen yet who lacks for nothing living in the US. He could not become a citizen in her native country if he wanted to despite being a spouse.
Completely agree, just not deporting them leave alone legal permanent status without citizenship is way more than generous enough to the point of being unfair to legal immigrants and Americans. If it weren't about giving illegals and legal immigrants voting rights, democrats would be totally against it.
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Originally Posted by BobNJ1960
I do think permanently barring them from voting should be part of any deal.
As a logical conservative that I am , I totally think this is a generous offer. I cant image any "Logical" Democrat that would oppose this.
I'm coming to the conclusion that whatever we do with immigration, merit-based, reductions, amnesty etc, we should just stop giving out full citizenship, voting rights and birthright citizenship. I know democrats will never rest and let that happen, but it is the only fair solution. Democrats have turned immigration into a corrupted ethno-partisanship and identity politics issue. That's the only reason for the Democrat platform and their support for mass immigration.
I have a relative married to someone not a citizen yet who lacks for nothing living in the US. He could not become a citizen in her native country if he wanted to despite being a spouse.
3-5-2018 is game-changing day.
Dems have no cards to play from that date on, and will be dependent upon majority party for anything they get on this issue.
Chuckles Schumer played into the GOP hand, by withdrawing wall offer near end of January, there is likely no deal passed by 3-5-2018.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime...
Why do people keep saying that they've never committed a crime? When they have.
Just a small sampling of Dreamers who'd committed crimes ...
Hermilo Moralez savagely beat a teenager to death and then set his body on fire.
Carlos Ruben Rodriguez savagely beat then murdered a 24-year-old mother , leaving a 2-year-old without her mother.
Pedro Espinoza killed a 17-year-old, because he was black.
Cinthya Garcia-Cisneros ran over and killed two little girls, then fled the scene and drove straight to a car wash, to wash the evidence off of her car.
An 18-year-old decapitated his mother, Yesenia Beatriz Funez Machado, leaving other young siblings without a mother. His reason for killing his mother -- "Because I felt like it".
Then there's a gang of dreamers, in Maryland, who first dug a grave, then went in search of their prey. They found their prey, choked him, stabbed him multiple times, decapitated him, dismembered him, cut his heart out, disemboweled him and then threw him into the pre-dug grave.
I guess you feel murder is not a crime, that they are just wayward babies?
What about the dreams of the victims?
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The only reasons I can think of is that they're racist or not terribly bright.. or both.
Ah, the race card .. with a kicker(disagree with me and you're an ignorant racist)
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Originally Posted by phillies2011
You are ineligible for the program if you've ever committed a crime.
What part of obama's "lean and lite" program are you not understanding? Dreamers were not vetted, kind of hard to know if they had ever committed crimes when no one bothers to even look.
Not even going to bother posting links, since you're dismissing others links, there's enough info for you to Google things for yourself, but I know you won't.
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.
While I don't necessarily agree with most conservative immigration policies, I can at least understand the point of view. But the fight over the dreamers doesn't make a bit of sense, and I think that's the reason over 30 Republican Congressmen disagree with the larger stance of their party and support a pathway to citizenship.
I get not wanting to pay for people who came her illegally, who have manipulated the system, etc. But in the case of the dreamers, they came here as innocent children and at this point we've already paid to educate them. They've all either on their way or already are, educated adults who have never committed crime since arriving in the USA. In other words, they are worth money to our economy. Whether we wanted to or not, we've invested in these individuals and they're all set up to be a positive force on the economy.
If you wanted to kick these people out, the time to kick them out was just as they arrived here. Not after we already invested money into their educations. Why should we educate these people, set them up for a successful life and then boot them out for another country to reap the benefits of our investment?
Forget compassion. Just think of the simple dollars and cents. You don't buy a property, invest in it, improve it, and then just give it away for free. Why should you do this with people?
So if it makes economic sense, it's the compassionate thing to do and a bunch of republicans already support a pathway to citizenship, why do so many republicans and Trump still oppose a pathway to citizenship for dreamers?
The only reasons I can think of is that they're racist or not terribly bright.. or both.
Ummm...you do know that Trump's proposal offers a path to citizenship for almost 2 million dreamers......right?
This is more than Obama or the Left ever did.
It's Democrats that are scoffing at it because they can't stand the thought of giving Trump anything resembling a win on legislation.
And because it means we'd have to actually start enforcing immigration laws.
So.....it begs the question if Democrats are really interested in striking a deal about DACA at all.......or if they're just paying lip service to the dreamers and Hispanics to keep the status quo and win votes.
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.
While I don't necessarily agree with most conservative immigration policies, I can at least understand the point of view. But the fight over the dreamers doesn't make a bit of sense, and I think that's the reason over 30 Republican Congressmen disagree with the larger stance of their party and support a pathway to citizenship.
I get not wanting to pay for people who came her illegally, who have manipulated the system, etc. But in the case of the dreamers, they came here as innocent children and at this point we've already paid to educate them. They've all either on their way or already are, educated adults who have never committed crime since arriving in the USA. In other words, they are worth money to our economy. Whether we wanted to or not, we've invested in these individuals and they're all set up to be a positive force on the economy.
If you wanted to kick these people out, the time to kick them out was just as they arrived here. Not after we already invested money into their educations. Why should we educate these people, set them up for a successful life and then boot them out for another country to reap the benefits of our investment?
Forget compassion. Just think of the simple dollars and cents. You don't buy a property, invest in it, improve it, and then just give it away for free. Why should you do this with people?
So if it makes economic sense, it's the compassionate thing to do and a bunch of republicans already support a pathway to citizenship, why do so many republicans and Trump still oppose a pathway to citizenship for dreamers?
The only reasons I can think of is that they're racist or not terribly bright.. or both.
They've never committed a crime? Once they reached 18 1/2 they were responsible for their own status in this country so it was a misdemeanor crime for them to remain here just for starters. No, we don't need them competing for jobs and resources in our economy. We have enough Americans who want to be a positive force in our society but their opportunities will be diminished by competing with these hundreds of thousands if not millions of DACAs.
How were we to know that these so-called kids were here illegally in the first place? We were obligated to educate them without proof that they are here illegally either way. You say forget compassion and then turn around in the next sentence and say it's the compassionate thing to do by allowing them to remain here. Is it compassionate to our own young Americans by forcing them to compete with them? I don't think so! Why would you do that to them?
Not only should they not be legalized based on the above but offering them citizenship would increase the voting block for the Democrats and they are of the child bearing age who's kids would do likewise. How is this logical for the Republicans?
I care though. If just the DACA can get their parents green cards then you're talking over 2 million. And with the 1.8 million Whitehouse plan up to 5 million.
Green cards may have been a misstatement. I meant legal status with no pathway to citizenship, but they can stay. I think the dreamers and their parents should get legal status with no pathway to citizenship. That seems fair to me.
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, I totally think this is a generous offer. I cant image any "Logical" Democrat that would oppose this.
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