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Oh, for God's sake just when we heard the lamest arguments not to have an ID on you this takes the cake! If you're at home you most likely will have a wallet nearby with your ID in it. How are you even going to call the EMS if you're knocked out from a fall? If you do call them they will ask who you are before they come and get you.
Funny I was thinking the same thing reading your arguments to ALWAYS FOREVER AND EVER carry an ID.
I was an ET in the navy. They taught us not to wear any metal when working on equipment. They showed us a movie where 110 volt AC was the biggest killer on ship.
I was an AQ which is the aviation equivilent of FT. The rate since combined with AT. Our technical knowledge probably similar as well as safety procedures howrver our working environments very different. ETs onboard ship often worked on communication or weapon sysyems with more power than you find in aircraft but the environment has less distracting hazards than found on the flight deck.
I was an organizational level tech, hands on.aircraft and as much a mechanic as a tech. I level guys in my rate worked in a lab.
I did post earlier that nobody working around hazardous circuits wore dog tags on chains. The idea of no metal on your body is irrelevant to anyone allowed on the flight deck. You arent getting up there without float coat, helmet, goggles and hearing protection, all of which.are loaded with various metal hardware.
The dog tag laced into the boot was because with so many ways to burn to a crisp the metal tag might be all thats recognizable.
In any case not sure where you are going with this because everyone in the Navy regardless of rate must have their name clearly stenciled or embroidered on their work uniform or have a tag on their dress whites or blues, and undergo regular personnel inspections to ensure compliance with this.
Its in the bluejacket manual isnt it?
Lastly while I dont recall being required to carry military ID off base or ship, you werent getting back on without it and many shore facilities required your ID or a base specific ID be worn conspicuously on your chest.
Please correct me if any of the above facts are wrong.
I'm just as bad, as I don't pay attention to local civics like I should. Even knowing that it doesn't take much for a state idea, law, to go from state to federal with the right person to take it there, I'm still not involved as I should be.
No knock warrants, they happen to the other guy. Not me ... why worry about the other guy's rights ... when I'm free to come and go as I please.
That is most unfortunate that that is the most common consensus among many citizens ... a lot happens, while we sleep.
Seems to me if I carry ID, have my house legibly numbered, my car with readable plates, I am a lot less likely to be a victim of a mistaken address no knock raid.
If you are criticizing the idea of police serving warrants good luck with that argument. While the paramilitary nature of law enforcement is troubling I think its a response to their work environment with about 2% of Americans insisting its their constitutional right to amass an arsenal of a dozen AR-15s and cases of ammo in preparation for civilizations armageddon.
I dont know what you did in the navy. I worked on the flight deck during day and night ops and everyone in my shop had their tags laced in their boots and you would be an irresponsible ass if you didnt.
Recall the film on the forrestal disaster we were shown in boot camp. If you were involved in such an event how would they know if that charred body was you or if you were blown.overboard hoping they knew you were missing?
It was my experience in the military that anyone who worked in a position where they could meet a grisly death welcomed the idea of them being easily identified should that happen. You owed it to next of kin and the safety of others you worked with.
Again not sure what you did.
You would be the only person I ever heard of that wore their tags, aside from those that did it in their civies as a fashion statement, lol.
Tags in the Navy worn generally in boot, some "A" schools, when attached to the Marines, and when in a combat zone. Combat zone is so they know if you are missing or not when they find your body blown to pieces with two other people, because if you are missing, the assumption is you may be captured, so a lot of things need to occur.
ID is typically done by DNA.
I have been on several flight decks and have not seen any tags laced up; when were in the Navy? They consider stuff like that FOD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder
I was an ET in the navy. They taught us not to wear any metal when working on equipment. They showed us a movie where 110 volt AC was the biggest killer on ship.
Exactly. When in the rubber room, no metal allowed, even got to take those steel toed boots off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
I was an AQ which is the aviation equivilent of FT. The rate since combined with AT. Our technical knowledge probably similar as well as safety procedures howrver our working environments very different. ETs onboard ship often worked on communication or weapon sysyems with more power than you find in aircraft but the environment has less distracting hazards than found on the flight deck.
An AQ? Goodness, that was a while ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
I was an organizational level tech, hands on.aircraft and as much a mechanic as a tech. I level guys in my rate worked in a lab.
I did post earlier that nobody working around hazardous circuits wore dog tags on chains. The idea of no metal on your body is irrelevant to anyone allowed on the flight deck. You arent getting up there without float coat, helmet, goggles and hearing protection, all of which.are loaded with various metal hardware.
The dog tag laced into the boot was because with so many ways to burn to a crisp the metal tag might be all thats recognizable.
Yea, but you said they wore in laced on their boot while working on 27k, which pretty much violates the safety rules of working on live equipment.
As for the flight deck, as I mentioned earlier, they considered it FOD, and could not have necklaces, hats, etc, anything loose, also in the work center.
Again, if they need to ID, they will use DNA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
In any case not sure where you are going with this because everyone in the Navy regardless of rate must have their name clearly stenciled or embroidered on their work uniform or have a tag on their dress whites or blues, and undergo regular personnel inspections to ensure compliance with this.
Its in the bluejacket manual isnt it?
Lastly while I dont recall being required to carry military ID off base or ship, you werent getting back on without it and many shore facilities required your ID or a base specific ID be worn conspicuously on your chest.
Please correct me if any of the above facts are wrong.
Stencils have went away. Name tags (the pin on type for dress uniform for example) are not issued by every command, and even when they are, it depends if they even make you wear it or not. The last uniform inspection I had was when I was in "A" school, went the next 10 years without one. Name tags can be covered by jackets (they may have one for a watch station, toss on when needed), ballistic vests, etc. But a name tag in itself is not an ID, it is not an acceptable form of ID anywhere I have been.
Never encountered a command that required your ID to be worn around your chest. There are commands that have a separate security ID that you are required to display, but have not encountered the regular ID being required.
Blue Jackets Manual, lol, forgot about that thing, could not tell you what is in it, did not ever look at it (nor had it) after boot.
So, there are state issued ID's available to you now so why not get one? You need a purse to carry a small card? You don't have any pockets?
Why would you need a state issued ID anyway? Don't police cars have integrated systems that permit DMV, NCIC, maybe ICE, lookups on the fly? If not now coming soon, so carrying ID seems redundant, inconvenience factor 20 odd keystrokes.
In fact 30+ years ago proving identity was far more difficult, and I'd understand the requirement to provide ID in a timely manner, but with todays systems, seems like a waste of time.
You would be the only person I ever heard of that wore their tags, aside from those that did it in their civies as a fashion statement, lol.
Tags in the Navy worn generally in boot, some "A" schools, when attached to the Marines, and when in a combat zone. Combat zone is so they know if you are missing or not when they find your body blown to pieces with two other people, because if you are missing, the assumption is you may be captured, so a lot of things need to occur.
ID is typically done by DNA.
I have been on several flight decks and have not seen any tags laced up; when were in the Navy? They consider stuff like that FOD.
Exactly. When in the rubber room, no metal allowed, even got to take those steel toed boots off.
An AQ? Goodness, that was a while ago.
Yea, but you said they wore in laced on their boot while working on 27k, which pretty much violates the safety rules of working on live equipment.
As for the flight deck, as I mentioned earlier, they considered it FOD, and could not have necklaces, hats, etc, anything loose, also in the work center.
Again, if they need to ID, they will use DNA.
Stencils have went away. Name tags (the pin on type for dress uniform for example) are not issued by every command, and even when they are, it depends if they even make you wear it or not. The last uniform inspection I had was when I was in "A" school, went the next 10 years without one. Name tags can be covered by jackets (they may have one for a watch station, toss on when needed), ballistic vests, etc. But a name tag in itself is not an ID, it is not an acceptable form of ID anywhere I have been.
Never encountered a command that required your ID to be worn around your chest. There are commands that have a separate security ID that you are required to display, but have not encountered the regular ID being required.
Blue Jackets Manual, lol, forgot about that thing, could not tell you what is in it, did not ever look at it (nor had it) after boot.
Except if you hung around showers checking for that stuff, you actually have no idea who wore dog tags or not since they are worn between your t shirt and body.
And dog tags laced INTO your boot are in no way considered FOD. Most flight deck personnel wore high top boots not boondockers. (Though I often wore the laceless boots known as LOX boots too. So called by AMEs because they could be removed easily if you spilled liquid oxygen on them) The tag goes between the laces and tongue usually a couple of eyelets down from the top. You cant see the tag when worn that way.
Not claiming everyone did it but youre suggesting it doesnt happen because you didnt see something that couldnt be seen.
Anyway I am not sure where you are going with this. Its agreed upon we were issued dog tags and were required to wear them in boot camp. Many people especially those who were assigned to hazardous duty of some kind continued to wear them because it was a good idea. I didnt feel some need to discard them in a statement of rebellion when I got to the fleet. The way things were in boot camp was the way the navy wanted it to be so they obviously would like personnel wearing dog tags. Nobody checks for them but a lot of people still wore them. What you did was what you did, if that fulfilled your desire to thumb your nose at gubmint then Im happy for you.
A last question. You state they have done away with stenciling. What do they do with all the items that get loose in the laundry?
This website indicates uniform stenciling is still a part of boot camp. Navy Boot Camp
Why would you need a state issued ID anyway? Don't police cars have integrated systems that permit DMV, NCIC, maybe ICE, lookups on the fly? If not now coming soon, so carrying ID seems redundant, inconvenience factor 20 odd keystrokes.
In fact 30+ years ago proving identity was far more difficult, and I'd understand the requirement to provide ID in a timely manner, but with todays systems, seems like a waste of time.
They need a name to look you up. An ID establishes you are the person with that name. People give police false info all the time.
Otherwise its "Im John Smith. Now you get to figure out which one of 10,000 John Smiths I am. Even if that is my real name."
They need a name to look you up. An ID establishes you are the person with that name. People give police false info all the time.
Otherwise its "Im John Smith. Now you get to figure out which one of 10,000 John Smiths I am. Even if that is my real name."
One would presume that before asking for ID you'd be asked your name. DMV has your picture on record, NCIC would have your mugshot if you're in there, ICE will have your photo too.
Are you saying police facial recognition abilities are below average?
Why would you need a state issued ID anyway? Don't police cars have integrated systems that permit DMV, NCIC, maybe ICE, lookups on the fly? If not now coming soon, so carrying ID seems redundant, inconvenience factor 20 odd keystrokes.
In fact 30+ years ago proving identity was far more difficult, and I'd understand the requirement to provide ID in a timely manner, but with todays systems, seems like a waste of time.
" Don't police cars have integrated systems that permit DMV, NCIC, maybe ICE, lookups on the fly?"
There are about 240 million people in this country. How do they know WHO to look up without some sort of ID as to WHO the person in front of them is?
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