Question for Liberals-how much more are you willing to pay for "Single Payer" (Canada, insurance)

[Sheepie2000]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

You assume it would cost more than what people pay now, but a study conducted by none other than Koch Bros shows it would actually cost less.

Maybe the question should be directed at the opponents of such system, asking what size discount would get them to support it ($5K, $10K, $15K, etc)

This is an excellent point. The OP seems to be asking how much MORE we'd be willing to pay on top of what we pay now, when in fact, it should cost LESS. Also, if you get your insurance through your employer, you probably don't know how much your employer pays toward insurance. That money would go back to you or toward single payer. Without more exact numbers, I can't answer the question, but I would be willing to pay the same as we pay now (premiums and deductibles), which would probably be more than what it costs under single payer, to ensure that every American had access to comprehensive healthcare.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by banjomike

Where did you get those numbers? They look to be completely made up.

Until we have some idea of the costs/benefits of the single payer system, there is no way of knowing what any of us will be willing to pay.

a true singleplayer will cost 5.5trillion to 6.5 trillion annually


of the 190 million tax filers, about 45% have a zero or negative tax liability...means that ere are actually only about 104 million tax PAYERS


5.5 trillion divided by 104 million tax payers is 52k each tax payer
6.5 trillion divided by 104 million tax payers is 62k each taxpayer


that is the ADDITIONAL COST over our already too big budget

[PullMyFinger]

Originally Posted by danielj72

Phizer and other drug companies, insurance company’s and corporate medical facilities all will have to go away. Billions in stock value and hundreds of thousands of jobs will be on the line if single payer comes. This is the biggest problem with going to this system. The shock all this would cause the economy could send us into a very deep recession or even a depression.

As far as what single payer would cost us who knows. There is no proposals put forth and no analysis by the congressional budget office that would lay out the cost of single payer. We all probably agree that we pay way too much for the system we have now. No one can honestly answer how much a new system would cost without a concrete proposal. Both parties should be doing that now, but considering the republicans had years to do that during the Obama care arguments and had nothing to replace it with I wouldn’t hold my breath. Congress is not capable of such a large endeavor, incompetence reigns supreme on both sides.

Like they say, you can’t have open borders with socialized medicine and I say you can’t have socialized medicine with for profit corporations involved.

There are thousands of ways to get rich in America, healthcare should not be one of them.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by Sheepie2000

This is an excellent point. The OP seems to be asking how much MORE we'd be willing to pay on top of what we pay now, when in fact, it should cost LESS. Also, if you get your insurance through your employer, you probably don't know how much your employer pays toward insurance. That money would go back to you or toward single payer. Without more exact numbers, I can't answer the question, but I would be willing to pay the same as we pay now (premiums and deductibles), which would probably be more than what it costs under single payer, to ensure that every American had access to comprehensive healthcare.

Correct. Removing a whole host of inefficiencies in the HC system will make it cheaper overall, not more expensive.

The OP is flawed, and the poster has hilariously refused to even acknowledge this point in subsequent posts.

[Eeyore1954]

As long as it is someone elses money most people are willing to pay a lot.

[Eeyore1954]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger

Like they say, you can’t have open borders with socialized medicine and I say you can’t have socialized medicine with for profit corporations involved.

There are thousands of ways to get rich in America, healthcare should not be one of them.

Why?

[Northman83]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

a true singleplayer will cost 5.5trillion to 6.5 trillion annually


of the 190 million tax filers, about 45% have a zero or negative tax liability...means that ere are actually only about 104 million tax PAYERS


5.5 trillion divided by 104 million tax payers is 52k each tax payer
6.5 trillion divided by 104 million tax payers is 62k each taxpayer


that is the ADDITIONAL COST over our already too big budget

So, you are just plucking fake numbers out of the air...


ALL other nations that have a UHC, pay $4-6000 pr capita. The US pays $10.000

Unless the US are complete idiots, and manages to increase costs, there would be a decrease in costs, NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

Stop it with the fake numbers!!


And its not only taxpayers who pay for it. Also corporations in all other countries pays into it.
Its just FAR FAR more efficient and cheaper and with better outcomes then the US system.

[serger]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

a true singleplayer will cost 5.5trillion to 6.5 trillion annually


of the 190 million tax filers, about 45% have a zero or negative tax liability...means that ere are actually only about 104 million tax PAYERS


5.5 trillion divided by 104 million tax payers is 52k each tax payer
6.5 trillion divided by 104 million tax payers is 62k each taxpayer


that is the ADDITIONAL COST over our already too big budget

So again, the same absurd claim, that the health care spending per capita will miraculously jump from the current severely high 10-11k per year to 20k per year.


Let me try one more time to help using non-faux math:


Current medicare spending - about 700 billion a year, covering 15% of the population. Current children's percentage of the population about 25%, their healthcare costs are about 1/5 per capita of that of a medicare beneficiary. Adult working population - about 60%, at 1/3 per capita of the cost.


So to cover everybody:


700 billion x (0.25/5 + 0.6/3 + 0.15)/0.15 = 1.87 trillion per year



Now, to be fair, I think that aged population also uses about 100 billion annually in medicaid, so you can multiply by 800 billion instead - total of about 2.13 trillion a year. Lastly, the total current out of pocket is about 350 billion a year. So if you just keep that, it is about 2.5 trillion grand total.


Obviously, these numbers are rough estimates, but should give an idea how much off you are. Current total HC spending is about 3.5 trillion annually.



Obviously, to fund expanded Medicare, new taxes would be needed, currently Medicare is funded via payroll taxes. There is no free lunch.

[TomC23]

I currently pay over five grand annually for private health insurance. So if a viable government single payer program was developed, I could easily see my way clear to pay the same amount or thirty percent more if it would get rid of those pesky co-pays. And BTW OP, shouldn’t this question be addressed to everyone?

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by serger

So again, the same absurd claim, that the health care spending per capita will miraculously jump from the current severely high 10-11k per year to 20k per year.


Let me try one more time to help using non-faux math:


Current medicare spending - about 700 billion a year, covering 15% of the population. Current children's percentage of the population about 25%, their healthcare costs are about 1/5 per capita of that of a medicare beneficiary. Adult working population - about 60%, at 1/3 per capita of the cost.


So to cover everybody:


700 billion x (0.25/5 + 0.6/3 + 0.15)/0.15 = 1.87 trillion per year



Now, to be fair, I think that aged population also uses about 100 billion annually in medicaid, so you can multiply by 800 billion instead - total of about 2.13 trillion a year. Lastly, the total current out of pocket is about 350 billion a year. So if you just keep that, it is about 2.5 trillion grand total.


Obviously, these numbers are rough estimates, but should give an idea how much off you are. Current total HC spending is about 3.5 trillion annually.



Obviously, to fund expanded Medicare, new taxes would be needed, currently Medicare is funded via payroll taxes. There is no free lunch.

how about address the cost issue...…………..hmmmmm


in 1965 they said medicare would only cost 12 billion by 1990, it cost 3 billion to implement it in 1966

in 1990 medicare cost 107 billion



in 2000 medicare was 216 billion
in 2008 medicare was 456 billion
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion

what is even more interesting is what the predicted outlays will be in the future
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion



lets now add in Medicaid
Medicaid:
2000.....117 billion
2008.....201 billion
2016.....368 billion

actual Medicaid 2016.....368 billion
prediction for 2020....450 billion
prediction for 2026....616 Billion


so the prediction is medicare and Medicaid is expected to be over 2 trillion dollars is less than 8 years
that's just the GOVERNMENT costs of Medicare and Medicaid... and medicare/Medicaid covers less than 1/6 of our population..


our current budget is about 4 trillion, with revenue of about 3 trillion...….




....where do you think the MAGIC MONEY is going to appear from




number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' as it is with medicare?? or is that nearly trillion dollar bill right back on the peoples back??


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More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $181 billion in 2019


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number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 690 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered?? that is the cost of CARE... again has nothing to do with insurance


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number of Americans with diabetes below the age of 60: 31 million....total cost 395 billion per year, and rising.....
will the ''government single-payer'' say.... nope, you got diabetes, because you are FAT, sorry not covered??


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Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----400 billion per year
year
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $480 Billion by 2020 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



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number of Americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 350 billion. and expected to be 390 billion by 2020


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number of Americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per year and increasing


that's over 130 million people with serious health risks..while some may overlap..its still a good one third of the country


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SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT...........................
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so what YOU are saying is we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts


when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS


how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machines are made in and imported from Denmark


how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face????? will the government LOWER property taxes for doctors offices.. the property taxes that fund our schools which say they dont have enough money????

think about that one for a second.... let it sink in....


how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????......especially some supplies that aren't even American, because the globalist liberals have outsourced almost all manufacturing!!!


how are you going to control the cost of the people salaries???? these people with a specialty of medicine...... a maximum wage ??? yeah that's a perfect socialist idea a max wage... bet that will fly



how are you, going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers????.....
...are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
yeah that's the idea...'nationalize' every profession connected to medicine, then install a max wage....



how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS????? …. well Shakespeare did say "kill all the lawyers"



how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 450,000 a month...that's over 5 million dollars in electric costs yearly, and in most case to a town government as many utility companies are municipals to the town/city...………..
.........….you are not likely to cut that piece of overhead...………..




so the GOVERNMENT prediction is Medicare and Medicaid is expected to be over 2 trillion dollars is less than 8 years..and that is for less than 1/6th of the country (if we were to use medicare costs to average out to the entire country, we are talking 12 trillion by 2026.....so...

..my estimate of a singlepayer (covering 330 million people) is on target with about 6 trillion annually, maybe even estimated a little low