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Old Today, 09:03 AM
 
12,873 posts, read 4,657,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
They may be some cost passed on but from what I've read a lot of the businesses will just keep their payroll level by employing fewer workers.

So, if you are one of the better low-wage workers then it's a definite win if you move up from $11 to $15/hr.

However if you aren't then you may have trouble finding a job at all.

P.S. Employers will also have more incentive to hire illegals off the books at lower wages.
A job market with fewer drudgery jobs is less not more of an incentive for illegal workers. If we eliminated the minimum wage which quite a lot of neo-feudalists want to see happen, it would create a huge new market for all sorts of jobs with appalling working conditions and be a massive pull factor for illegal immigration.

Lets say we strongly enforce unionization and a living wage for agricultural workers and punish employers appropriately. You're saying that this will lead to a boom in automation and technological innovation in that sector which makes it more efficient. These backbreaking jobs are then largely lost and illegal immigration becomes less attractive for uneducated poor people from the third world.
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Old Today, 09:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I am fine with a reasonable minimum wage increase. I am also fine with a national healthcare system so poor people who need a surgery don't get destroyed financially.

$15 minimum wage in a low cost of living area would hurt many of those low-income people.

If Democrats care so much, how come adjusting for cost of living shows that red areas typically have higher minimum wages than the deep blue big cities? Shouldn't more and more of these cities controlled by Democrats start raising the wages way above what it is now to lead the way?
What happens in a negotiation? How do they work?
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Old Today, 09:40 AM
 
10,695 posts, read 2,733,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
What happens in a negotiation? How do they work?
$15 was the starting point, ultimately they will probably raise MW (since it hasnt been raised in such a long time), but realistically, it will be around $12. per hour.
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Old Today, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
$15 was the starting point, ultimately they will probably raise MW (since it hasnt been raised in such a long time), but realistically, it will be around $12. per hour.
Exactly.

Unless........the GOP wants to sit on their hands and do nothing and if say Warren wins and the (D)'s gain control of the Senate again, who knows.
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Old Today, 09:48 AM
 
12,873 posts, read 4,657,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
$15 was the starting point, ultimately they will probably raise MW (since it hasnt been raised in such a long time), but realistically, it will be around $12. per hour.
By 2025. Or add another year or two as part of the negotiation with the so-called "moderates" and "centrists" (heavily funded by the super rich of course). We're still talking starvation wages by the time 2027 starts.

Its mind boggling to see how many ordinary working stiffs panic at this prospect when the ultra wealthy have such enormous power and influence over the legislative process. There is zero chance of low wage workers actually getting a proper raise at the federal level so people can calm down. Congress is there for people with money. And low wage workers dont have it.
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Old Today, 09:58 AM
 
5,490 posts, read 2,027,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
They may be some cost passed on but from what I've read a lot of the businesses will just keep their payroll level by employing fewer workers.
Not in California's experience.

The minimum wage was increased from $8/hr to $11/hr and unemployment went down. It turned out that bottom tier workers have more money to spend, which increased demand for goods and services at local businesses, who then had to hire up to meet that increased demand. Although labor costs increased, the businesses are faring better because revenue and profits are up.

The California experience completely disproved the "job killer" argument against higher minimum wages.

Which states will benefit the most from raising the min wage? The depressed low cost of living states. Those economies will get a nice stimulus from the "California effect" I just described as low wage workers spend and inject those dollars into the local economy.
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Old Today, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Not in California's experience.

The minimum wage was increased from $8/hr to $11/hr and unemployment went down. It turned out that bottom tier workers have more money to spend, which increased demand for goods and services at local businesses, who then had to hire up to meet that increased demand. Although labor costs increased, the businesses are faring better because revenue and profits are up.

The California experience completely disproved the "job killer" argument against higher minimum wages.

Which states will benefit the most from raising the min wage? The depressed low cost of living states. Those economies will get a nice stimulus from the "California effect" I just described as low wage workers spend and inject those dollars into the local economy.
As of July 1 there was another raise in min wage. It varies by county though..$13.50-$20.00 now.
At $16/hour that comes out to about $32K a year. Not too bad for unskilled worker doing 40 hours.
In Oakland at $20/hour that's over $38K a year. Teachers with a 4 year college degree start at $43k.
So those unskilled workers are making almost as much as entry level college required jobs.

https://www.laboremploymentlawblog.c...es-california/
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Old Today, 10:10 AM
 
10,695 posts, read 2,733,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Not in California's experience.

The minimum wage was increased from $8/hr to $11/hr and unemployment went down. It turned out that bottom tier workers have more money to spend, which increased demand for goods and services at local businesses, who then had to hire up to meet that increased demand. Although labor costs increased, the businesses are faring better because revenue and profits are up.

The California experience completely disproved the "job killer" argument against higher minimum wages.

Which states will benefit the most from raising the min wage? The depressed low cost of living states. Those economies will get a nice stimulus from the "California effect" I just described as low wage workers spend and inject those dollars into the local economy.
That should be common sense...if you put MORE money on someones paycheck...they are going to spend MORE money!!


Alot of the businesses and companies complaining about this, just do not want to pay these people more money, its that simple really, its not that they dont have it (if they were truly that bad off, their annual profits would reflect that), and they would barely be staying afloat.


It is possible this will bankrupt some businesses, but if they are THAT dependent on employees working for so little money, chances are, their businesses were not viable to begin with, and besides that, for the businesses that do shut down, there will be many more than open up to replace them, those that WILL be able to make it profitable with such a high MW.
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Old Today, 10:16 AM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,361 posts, read 14,065,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
And they will lose their subsidized health care, with the new premiums taking up much of their new raise. "Be careful what you ask for."


yep


thousands of small businesses are facing situations like this:





Quote:

Quote:
here is an example of what will happen with this 'raising'

minimum wage is for UNSKILLED currently at 7.20

I pay my UNSKILLED laborers (that clean the shop) over $9 an hour, the min wage is $7.2

an example:

I run a maintenance shop
I have a shop foreman...$24/hr
I have 3 mechanics.......$22/hr
I have a parts manager...$22/hr
I have 2 mechanic helpers...$14
I have 2 parts workers/drivers...$12
I have 2 labors (to clear the shop)....$9 (2 over min)

minimum wage is $7.2

the 'government' raises the minimum wage to 15

now I HAVE to increase the laborers wage to AT LEAST 15.. and he will WANT $17 (2 over min)....but If I give the "unskilled" laborer $17 then the driver (must maintain a clean license) will want more (hey boss, I was making $3 more than the unskilled guy) ...as so on, and so on...

either that or you will make what was 'above' min wage skilled worker to being min wage workers

thus RAISING THE COSTS of my SERVICE that I provide to the society.....
I would to raise salaries on mech helpers, drivers, and laborers...not to mention the actual SKILLED workers....meanwhile the business will end up failing, because it not is too costly to stay in business



so either costs will go up....or people will get laid-off......because as a small shop owner I cant afford to give any more than I am giving


this is just one example of what will happen, if we try raising the min wage anymore



as to raising it to a federal 15/hr remember this about raising a min wage and how it effect/affect other things
and let's not forget the COST of raising it to 15...those workers are NOT going to see much of a raise....

it also increases the taxes on EVERYONE who fell in that zone
increase of income taxes
increase of payroll taxes
loss/reduction of ACA/Medicaid health care subsidies
increase cost of health premiums
increase of state income taxes (if any)
loss/reduction of social benefits such as welfare/food stamps
increase on the prices of EVERYTHING


so possibly half of that raise magically disappears into the pockets of the politicians


the problem with all the fools shouting raise the min wage, is they don't see the big picture
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Old Today, 10:18 AM
 
10,695 posts, read 2,733,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
By 2025. Or add another year or two as part of the negotiation with the so-called "moderates" and "centrists" (heavily funded by the super rich of course). We're still talking starvation wages by the time 2027 starts.

Its mind boggling to see how many ordinary working stiffs panic at this prospect when the ultra wealthy have such enormous power and influence over the legislative process. There is zero chance of low wage workers actually getting a proper raise at the federal level so people can calm down. Congress is there for people with money. And low wage workers dont have it.
Its in the Govts best interest to actually pay these people more money though, the more they make, the more income taxes taken out (going from $7.25 to $15 is going to result in MUCH more tax revenue), not to mention, the increase in spending that will happen immediately!


Plus, increasing their pay this much, is going to mean MANY will no longer qualify for Govt assistance (freeing up millions if not more).
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