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Old Yesterday, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,804 posts, read 2,003,826 times
Reputation: 1715

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Personally, I question libertarianism's sincerity in supporting a limited or minimal state, or no state at all, when the objective/goal is not in fact to get rid of, or 'shrink' the state; they simply seek to replace the state with private for-profit corporations.
Well, since corporations are creations of the State, and cannot exist without a State, my sincerity in completely abolishing the State is unwavering.
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 AM
 
735 posts, read 383,651 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
lmao! The wikipedia article says the exact opposite.

LMAO

"Unable to succeed at home, Koch found work in the Soviet Union".[13] Between 1929 and 1932 Winkler-Koch "trained Bolshevik engineers[14] and helped Stalin's regime set up fifteen modern oil refineries" in the Soviet Union. "Over time, however, Stalin brutally purged several of Koch's Soviet colleagues. Koch was deeply affected by the experience, and regretted his collaboration."[13] The company also built installations in countries throughout Europe, the Middle East and Asia.[1] Koch partnered with William Rhodes Davis to build the third-largest oil refinery serving the Third Reich, a project which was personally approved by Adolf Hitler"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_C._Koch

# Reading is fundamental
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Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,873 posts, read 1,662,446 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I have a crazy relative who is a Libertanian. For work, he sold on ebay while his wife raked in the money from a great job. Just had a baby. Wife lost job. Now they're on Obamacare. Wonder if he still believes this cold hearted Libertarian nonsense now.
Libertarianism isn't cold-hearted. The non-aggression principle and property rights come from a place of respecting and protecting EVERY individual, even if the majority outnumbers them and wants to harm them or take their belongings. People in large groups can be irrational, and it's easy to whip up resentment for a minority to justify overruling their rights for the benefit of the majority.

You could argue that it's dispassionate, meaning it's an attempt to remove subjective personal feelings from the discussion and go with what's true, correct, rational, etc...but that doesn't equal heartless, at all.

And of course, knowing a libertarian who didn't stick to their principles doesn't invalidate libertarianism. You know that.
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,804 posts, read 2,003,826 times
Reputation: 1715
Considering the modern libertarian movement was largely started by two Jews this entire thread is a fallacy.
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Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM
 
735 posts, read 383,651 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
Well, since corporations are creations of the State, and cannot exist without a State, my sincerity in completely abolishing the State is unwavering.
#swing Miss faceplant#

The state actually regulates big business

the people through democracy regulate the state

So if you get rid of the people's ability to regulate the state or get rid of the state's ability to regulate the corporations the corporations are in charge defacto

Through groups like The American legislative exchange Council big corporations bribe the State and thus are no longer regulated by them

# corporate takeover of government
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Old Yesterday, 09:58 AM
 
Location: *
8,190 posts, read 2,477,465 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
#swing Miss faceplant#

The state actually regulates big business

the people through democracy regulate the state

So if you get rid of the people's ability to regulate the state or get rid of the state's ability to regulate the corporations the corporations are in charge defacto

Through groups like The American legislative exchange Council big corporations bribe the State and thus are no longer regulated by them

# corporate takeover of government
Another +1+ for the realness.
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Old Yesterday, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,873 posts, read 1,662,446 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
#swing Miss faceplant#

The state actually regulates big business

the people through democracy regulate the state

So if you get rid of the people's ability to regulate the state or get rid of the state's ability to regulate the corporations the corporations are in charge defacto

Through groups like The American legislative exchange Council big corporations bribe the State and thus are no longer regulated by them

# corporate takeover of government
The state isn't on your side, first of all, and people don't regulate it in any meaningful way. That's naive.

Second of all, a company isn't "in charge" if they can't initiate force against anyone.
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Old Yesterday, 10:02 AM
 
735 posts, read 383,651 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
Considering the modern libertarian movement was largely started by two Jews this entire thread is a fallacy.
What's that got to do with Fred Koch's fortune coming from Hitler and Stalin?

Its a bit more complicated than "started by 2 jews" LOL

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,804 posts, read 2,003,826 times
Reputation: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
#swing Miss faceplant#

The state actually regulates big business

the people through democracy regulate the state

So if you get rid of the people's ability to regulate the state or get rid of the state's ability to regulate the corporations the corporations are in charge defacto

Through groups like The American legislative exchange Council big corporations bribe the State and thus are no longer regulated by them

# corporate takeover of government
The State regulates businesses, which is why capitalism cannot exist within the confines of a State.

Democracy is mob rule, and the State doesn't accept regulations on itself.

Corporations are State creations, and as such cannot exist if no State exists.

Government itself is a corporation.

#Walk-off grand slam#
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Old Yesterday, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,804 posts, read 2,003,826 times
Reputation: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
What's that got to do with Fred Koch's fortune coming from Hitler and Stalin?

Its a bit more complicated than "started by 2 jews" LOL

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
It has everything to do with the fact that Fred Koch wasn't the founder of the modern libertarian movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard
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