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Old 01-08-2022, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,590 posts, read 6,072,690 times
Reputation: 22704

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
I was thinking something along the same lines.

Before we trash federalism, we should try it!

Would be interesting to go back to the federal system we had, before 1830.
Indeed. I will take any year that the 10th Amendment actually was followed. Ever since the interstate commerce act was passed in 1887, State's rights have basically been null and void. Anything that could possibly cross state lines is not considered under the authority of the federal government. It is insane.

Of course, State's rights ended sometime during the Civil War, but it has gotten much worse since the interstate commerce act.
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,590 posts, read 6,072,690 times
Reputation: 22704
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Now that we know we cannot live w/in this system, because we are inept, why not simplify it? We can't keep it the same.
It is not that easy. There is not a better system. We are now a corrupt nation with an apathetic and increasingly dependent electorate willing to surrender liberty for safety and government freebies and entitlements. There is no system that will work going forward. There is only the race to tyranny and what form it will take. I don't see a dictatorship. I see an oligarchy or a theocracy, based on socialism. It is too late to save our pure Republican form of government by the People. It is just a question of how fast a small group uses the federal government system to consolidate power over us and whether we maintain a pretence of democracy, or they drop the act and just go full boat dictatorship style without even trying to hide it.
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,590 posts, read 6,072,690 times
Reputation: 22704
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
It's always through armed conflict, but it doesn't need to be. Humans are evolving, & national communication and coordination is possible now that was not not around before. Just like flash mobs use social media to coordinate & attack, social media could be used for the common good.
You overestimate our ability to communicate and coordinate. Those in power are not going to go quietly. If they see a serious challenge to their power, and see that we are "communicating" and "coordinating" efficiently, what is the first thing they are going to do. Now that all communication is electronic, we have never been more vulnerable.

They can shut down the entire internet with the flip of a switch. Another flip, and your cell phone tower goes dead. We are at their mercy for communications. At any time they feel we are a major threat to their monopoly on power POOF down goes the internet and all cellular communication.

What are we going to do, buy carrier pigeons or tie cans together with strings? We have never given away our powers of communication so thoroughly.
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:56 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,660 posts, read 28,733,368 times
Reputation: 50557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
It is not that easy. There is not a better system. We are now a corrupt nation with an apathetic and increasingly dependent electorate willing to surrender liberty for safety and government freebies and entitlements. There is no system that will work going forward. There is only the race to tyranny and what form it will take. I don't see a dictatorship. I see an oligarchy or a theocracy, based on socialism. It is too late to save our pure Republican form of government by the People. It is just a question of how fast a small group uses the federal government system to consolidate power over us and whether we maintain a pretence of democracy, or they drop the act and just go full boat dictatorship style without even trying to hide it.

We've been a corrupt nation for quite a while. Nothing to do with size of government. It's love of MONEY. Greed. Lobbying. Big corporations. A little bit of socialism (yep, the bad word) to spread a bit of the wealth and keep some of it out of the hands of the greedy super rich would go a long way to save our country.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:06 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,660 posts, read 28,733,368 times
Reputation: 50557
If there is any such thing as an honest politician, a few of them could save us.

Most of us will not accept a theocracy or a dictatorship. Reign in the huge corporations and get some help for the ordinary people. Big Pharm, Big Oil, all the BIG greedy guys bribing the corrupt politicians.

No handouts but give the little guys a break. Call it socialism but a little bit of it would go a long way to even things out. It is not a word you need to be scared of.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,590 posts, read 6,072,690 times
Reputation: 22704
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
We've been a corrupt nation for quite a while. Nothing to do with size of government. It's love of MONEY. Greed. Lobbying. Big corporations. A little bit of socialism (yep, the bad word) to spread a bit of the wealth and keep some of it out of the hands of the greedy super rich would go a long way to save our country.
It has everything to do with the size and scope of government. Every function the government does provides an opportunity for corruption. The more laws, regulations, and restrictions that are passed, the more opportunitites there are for government officials to exploit the laws to enrich themselves financially or to gain power.

The more taxes, fees, and fines the govenrment levies on us in a myriad of ways, the more opportunities there are for corrupt individuals to pocket the money, but far worse are those who simply redirect YOUR money toward any government agency they want to enrich and grow and fund.

Here is an example.

Once upon a time, police only had power to arrest you and put you in jail. Courts decided if you were going to stay in jail. At some point, somebody in government waved a magic wand and created the power to take your property away from you in violation of the 5th Amendment to the US constitution, which says, “Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." The constitution does not say "unless you commit a crime". It says, the government cannot take your property without paying you fair value.

After they waved the magic government wand, suddenly they could take your property through "asset forfeiture" laws. Somebody decided the police can just assume that your money or property was obtained through ill gotten gains such as drug sales, and take that money or property away from you. They don't even have to prove that your money or property was funded by illegal means. It is up to you to prove that you legally obtained your money or property.


Watch Cops Seize Combat Vet's Life Savings [RARE FOOTAGE]

https://youtu.be/MkeS_0NQUZs


I would never risk carrying large sums of cash, but there have been many stories of people who have done so and had police take that cash away from them because they could not prove they had obtained it legally. These are people who were taking life savings out of the country to help family abroad, or carrying money to build a new business, or simply carry the money on their person because they just don't trust banks. Stupid, I know, but their choice. They get stopped for a tail light being out, their car is searched, and the next thing they know is the police are impounding all of their cash because the amount seems like it must have come from drug sales. No proof, no nothing.

They let police agencies keep a share of the assets they sieze. That is a complete conflict of interest. Of course they are going to be tempted to sieze much more money and property when they can use part of it to fund their department.

That is corruption.

There was a story about a man losing his entire multi-million dollar ranch because he grew pot illegally on it. Hey, throw him in jail. No problem. He is a criminal. Should he lose his multi-million dollar ranch because of it? Not until you change the just compensation clause of the 5th Amendment.

Before the courts legally allowed police to do this, there was no opportunity for this corruption. The more power the government gets, and the more laws, rules, restrictions, fines, and fees they impose, the more the corruption.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:16 PM
 
1,882 posts, read 655,640 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
If there is any such thing as an honest politician, a few of them could save us.

Most of us will not accept a theocracy or a dictatorship. Reign in the huge corporations and get some help for the ordinary people. Big Pharm, Big Oil, all the BIG greedy guys bribing the corrupt politicians.

No handouts but give the little guys a break. Call it socialism but a little bit of it would go a long way to even things out. It is not a word you need to be scared of.
We cannot do away with avarice and corruption. We can only limit their scope. But before we legislate those limits, we have to philosophically justify the proposals before they can become laws.

For example, we philosophically justified anti-trust proposal as monopoly being detrimental in the long term for the overall economy.

Now we have philosophically and morally justify limits to CEO compensation.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:19 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,609,494 times
Reputation: 2576
We also have:
Libertarian party
Green Party
Constitution Party


Give R & D a run for their money by incorporating those three onto a ballot, the u.s. just may stand a chance by creating a real democracy ... just a thought.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:26 PM
 
1,882 posts, read 655,640 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
We also have:
Libertarian party
Green Party
Constitution Party


Give R & D a run for their money by incorporating those three onto a ballot, the u.s. just may stand a chance by creating a real democracy ... just a thought.
The US electoral foundation is called 'First Past The Post' (FPTP) and the system tends to stabilize out to two dominant parties. If the Libs have smaller membership, it is no one's fault but their own. No one forced anyone to be R or D or L or C or G.

If the R and D have more attractive ideological platforms, you cannot prevent people from joining them, and if you allow people to join, then now we have a stabilized electorate that FPTP predicted: Two dominant parties.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,590 posts, read 6,072,690 times
Reputation: 22704
Here is a good example of corruption. Asset forfeiture laws, which are a crystal clear violation of the Constitution's 5th Amendment just compensation clause, are ripe for corruption.

The Nevada Highway Patrol hands a case to the DEA who can use Federal asset seizure laws to circumvent the Nevada asset seizure laws, then kicks 80% back to the Nevada Highway Patrol. It is corrupt, expecially given that the Veteran's money was not illegally obtained. This is outright theft by the government or an innocent citizen, at both state and federal level.

Watch Cops Seize Combat Vet's Life Savings [RARE FOOTAGE]

https://youtu.be/MkeS_0NQUZs
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