Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-08-2022, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,780 posts, read 12,849,279 times
Reputation: 19350

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Pretty much, and go ahead and work the sequence of necessary events in your own head.

Right now, you have 536 corrupt-ocrats running things with their faceless thugocracy of bureaucrats that number more than a million. They possess a monopoly on force and violence, they possess the monopoly on making, enforcing and adjudicating the laws any way they please, and they like things just the way they are.

We know the last statement is true because they spend tens, sometimes hundreds of $millions to get jobs that pay less than $200k annually. It is insanely profitable to be a lowly public servant who gets to wield that monopoly like a drunk teenager with Dad's gun and VISA card.

Filter down a level, and every state has the same construct, and while not as profitable, still a very financially rewarding career path. And then filter down again to the town/neighborhood level, and same thing.

None of these folks who own and operate the levers of power want to lose their ability to basically print money and amass personal fortunes. That is power nobody will ever give up willingly, and voting new people in to that system does nothing but corrupt new people into being the same corrupt-ocrats you have right now.

So what FORCES someone to relinquish power? Hmm....

Seems like someone, or a large group of someones, would need to present a "compelling case" for the corrupt-ocrat to abandon that power in favor of the "new system" you seek. Now, given that the corrupt-ocrat can already print money as they see fit and can write a law tomorrow that may as well read "give money to me because I said so", what sort of compelling argument do you think would make them walk away from that? Take your time...it will come to you...

Now, you may actually be pondering all sorts of possibilities, but my next advice would be to examine...uhm...ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY...for some guidance on how sweeping changes, overhauls and/or replacements of governing systems have occurred. There is a pretty undeniable and observable pattern. You'll see it...
It's always through armed conflict, but it doesn't need to be. Humans are evolving, & national communication and coordination is possible now that was not not around before. Just like flash mobs use social media to coordinate & attack, social media could be used for the common good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-08-2022, 09:46 AM
 
1,517 posts, read 541,843 times
Reputation: 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
There is nothing wrong with Federalism. It is the voters that are the problem. Not the system. Voters reward corrupt politicians who offer them the most free stuff and biggest entitlements. Voters love and trust government too much, rather than making sure government is severely limited.

John Adams said that our system was only suitable for a moral and religious people, which we clearly are not anymore, so it is no surprise that our system no longer works.

Thanks to Citizens United it is legal for corporations to buy our legislators. Our government is bought and paid for by super PACS and dark money, it's utterly disgusting.



Step 1: Eliminate Citizens United!

Step 2: Enable term limits for congress and SCOTUS! Serving our country was intended by be an act of kindness not a means to enrich oneself!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 09:48 AM
 
13,966 posts, read 5,634,219 times
Reputation: 8621
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasrollingstone View Post
Thanks to Citizens United it is legal for corporations to buy our legislators. Our government is bought and paid for by super PACS and dark money, it's utterly disgusting.

Step 1: Eliminate Citizens United!
Yeah...because lobbyists purchasing political power never existed before Citizens United. Sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 09:50 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,602,411 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by RcHydro View Post
Want to go down a darker road. Try Trumps Authoritarianism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Which differs from Biden's Authoritarianism how, exactly?
Voting in a dictator every four years, does not a democracy make ... How we got here is that Congress has given the EO more power over the course of the last 200 years than what was originally granted in the u.s. Constitution. Congress fails at doing their job, yet everyone points fingers at the potus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 09:52 AM
 
2,709 posts, read 1,040,874 times
Reputation: 1058
Originally Posted by Artisan10 View Post
The farther our country gets away from the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution (protecting individual rights to life, liberty, private property and pursuit of happiness), the faster it will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RcHydro View Post
Want to go down a darker road. Try Trumps Authoritarianism.
President Trump held more to the Constitution than biden, by far. Could President Trump have followed the Constitution more closely? Yes. But biden is a DISASTER. It will take years to undo the damage that biden has done to our country.

Biden is the authoritarian with his tyrannical mandates.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,973 posts, read 5,777,075 times
Reputation: 4738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Yeah...because lobbyists purchasing political power never existed before Citizens United. Sure.
We ought to temporarily outlaw lobbying of any kind, especially at the Federal level. Lobbying worked for a great while when there were fewer lobbyists and those few actually cared about the common people's interests. Now there are too many lobbyists lobbying for too many things, too many cooks in the kitchen, caring only about certain private interests or their own self-interests and not the interests of the common people, and all the while making loads of money. We need a hard reset on the nature of lobbying in this nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,973 posts, read 5,777,075 times
Reputation: 4738
I am a strong proponent of accountable, transparent, and responsible government. I wonder if we adopt the Westminster model of government could we improve our governance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,340 posts, read 14,285,966 times
Reputation: 27863
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Just my opinion developed through 50 years of anecdotel observation...

Our federal government has us ~$30T in debt, and the interest on that debt will soon exceed national defense spending.

Thus, the Fed must artificially supress interest rates, which pushes savers into risky stocks.

The Fed is diluting the dollars we saved by printing Monopoly money.

DC raided our Social Security trust fund, leaving it underfunded.

Our citizens are more divided than ever.

Trust in government is near historic lows:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ent-1958-2021/

Our government is unable to properly manage foreign immigration.

Our federal government is unable to effectively manage a national health crisis.

DC's educational oversight has underperformed.

Our federal government keeps taking an increasingly large % of our nations GDP, leaving less for the private sector to grow the economy.

Fed jobs' total comp packages are now ~1.5x higher than those in the private sector, & the gap is growing rapidly.

Most of the wealthiest zip codes in the U.S. surround Washington DC

DC overreaches internationally, creating global enemies, & inserting us into senseless overseas conflicts.

The feds have allowed too much key manufacturing to be moved to China, like computer chips, meds, & Rare Earth Minerals.

I think most of us would agree with most of these thoughts.

Red versus Blue is powerfully enticing, I'll admit, but it's like re-arranging the chairs on the Titanic, & the ship's sinking...time is short.

IMHO, downsizing DC should be the mission-in-common that brings us all together again, and saves us from tyranny.

Does anyone out there believe that doing more of the same will end well?
We had ONE CHANCE - actually - I stand corrected - we had two chances to fix this problem.

1992 - Ross Perot ran for president as an outsider, and was winning the polls at one point. When the establishment noticed that, they threatened his family. Perot withdrew from the race. He later got back in, but the damage was done. Perot got enough of the vote (19%) to deny George Bush a repeat term, but nowhere near what he needed to become president.

2016 - Donald Trump runs and wins (barely). Trump was a stronger person than Perot - anyone who hit Trump got hit back harder - and he ran his entire campaign on giving the big middle finger to the system and to both parties. And what he got done was nothing short of a damn miracle given the extreme level of hatred that he had to deal with for four years.
But, there was no way the establishment was going to allow him to win again, and they didn't.

Trump was the last chance. There won't be another Trump, and we are too far gone by now.

And no, I don't see it ending well.

Last edited by BeerGeek40; 01-08-2022 at 01:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,780 posts, read 12,849,279 times
Reputation: 19350
Quote:
Originally Posted by RcHydro View Post
Want to go down a darker road. Try Trumps Authoritarianism.
Are you against our Constitution & Bill of Rights? Would you join Republicans, Independents, & Democrats to save the ****ry from the Federal Gov't in Washington DC?

Or, do you tink they are doing just fine?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2022, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,780 posts, read 12,849,279 times
Reputation: 19350
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
We had ONE CHANCE - actually - I stand corrected - we had two chances to fix this problem.

1992 - Ross Perot ran for president as an outsider, and was winning the polls at one point. When the establishment noticed that, they threatened his family. Perot withdrew from the race. He later got back in, but the damage was done. Perot got enough of the vote (19%) to deny George Bush a repeat term, but nowhere near what he needed to become president.

2016 - Donald Trump runs and wins (barely). Trump was a stronger person than Perot - anyone who hit Trump got hit back harder - and he ran his entire campaign on giving the big middle finger to the system and to both parties. And what he got done was nothing short of a damn miracle given the extreme level of hatred that he had to deal with for four years.
But, there was no way the establishment was going to allow him to win again, and they didn't.

Trump was the last chance. There won't be another Trump, and we are too far gone by now.

And no, I don't see it ending well.
So you see no way Americans can come together to peacefully right-size our Federal Government in spending, power, & size (# of people)?

Do you think it must come off the rails first?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top