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Old 05-31-2022, 11:55 AM
 
29,768 posts, read 14,825,913 times
Reputation: 14590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
"A society where only the rulers have guns..."

That describes most of the developed countries in the world. Do you think living in Japan would be scary? The crime rate there is one-third what it is in the US. Finland? Half our crime rate. And these places have tight gun control. How scary!
An interesting graph. The majority of the countries that have more than double the US homicide rate, also either firearms are highly restricted or banned outright. This graph alone shows how firearms are not the problem. On the low end of the graph, countries have low rates of homicides , yet still have firearms. While many countries with high homicide rates and have extremely restrictive firearms laws.

Also, these couple of paragraphs stood out.

Researchers talk about “civilised” and “de-civilising” gun cultures, cultures where gun ownership is associated with traditional values of respect and responsibility, and others where gun availability largely empowers the criminally minded and unstable, adding to the violence and chaos. High levels of social cohesion, low crime rates and internationally high levels of trust and confidence in police and social institutions do appear to reduce levels of gun homicide.

As a result of the new international focus in gun control research (there was a time when the only academic research on firearms took place in the US, and a large part of it funded, directly and indirectly, by the influential US lobbying group National Rifle Association) wider questions came under the spotlight. Researchers started to focus less upon the gun as an independent variable and instead began to address contexts and the different cultures of gun use. They also began to acknowledge, as criminologists have always known, that introducing new laws seldom changes anything on its own – offenders break laws.


Further proof that it is the societal make up that is more responsible for less violence. The US has the opposite of "High levels of social cohesion, low crime rates and internationally high levels of trust and confidence in police and social institutions" This is what is driving our violence up. And how did our society get to the point of not having social cohesion, trust, and confidence in police and social institutions ?

https://theconversation.com/us-shoot...n-crime-183933
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A society where only the rulers have guns is scary!-graph_1.jpg  
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Old 05-31-2022, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,932 posts, read 9,640,884 times
Reputation: 15672
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Why look to other countries? Why not look within the USA at how strict gun laws are doing?

How's strict gun laws working out in Chicago? What is the murder rate there?

How are mandatory gun ownership working out in Kennesaw Georgia? What is the murder rate there?

Case closed, & class dismissed.
This is yet another useless right-wing retort that gets demolished time and time again.

A criminal in Chicago need only cross the border into Indiana to avoid Chicago's strict gun laws.

That's why we democrats cite other countries, because doing so demonstrates what happens when restrictions are applied nationally.
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Old 05-31-2022, 11:59 AM
 
8,943 posts, read 2,984,842 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
You're still completely avoiding my point.

If guns protected women from being raped, the US would have one of the lowest rape rates in the world, because American women are armed to the hilt (or at least they have the right to be so).

But alas, your right-wing fantasy isn't working out, because the US has one of the highest rape rates in the developed world.
So you choose to not answer the question?

You can show me charts of "rates" all you want. I'm saying FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INDEED RAPED, what's your advice? Tough it out, because you had to take one for the team?

All the countries you show have violent crime and rape. How does the INDIVIDUAL who is a victim of such crime in those countries go about possibly preventing it?

What's your suggestion?
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:00 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 2,984,842 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
This is yet another useless right-wing retort that gets demolished time and time again.

A criminal in Chicago need only cross the border into Indiana to avoid Chicago's strict gun laws.

That's why we democrats cite other countries, because doing so demonstrates what happens when restrictions are applied nationally.
It's illegal to buy guns in Indiana if you are a resident of Illinois. Has been since the 1968 gun control act.

Surely you knew this?
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,932 posts, read 9,640,884 times
Reputation: 15672
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
So you choose to not answer the question?

You can show me charts of "rates" all you want. I'm saying FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INDEED RAPED, what's your advice? Tough it out, because you had to take one for the team?

All the countries you show have violent crime and rape. How does the INDIVIDUAL who is a victim of such crime in those countries go about possibly preventing it?

What's your suggestion?
Somehow, women in Canada, France, Australia and elsewhere manage to get along just fine without being armed to the hilt. And somehow, women in the US, despite being armed to the hilt, seem to have a tougher time avoiding being raped. You want to avoid statistics, because they do not fit your narrative.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:04 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,179 posts, read 10,861,459 times
Reputation: 31717
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
The depths of right-wing paranoia are clearly evident in this thread.
Truer words were never spoken... No one seriously wants to take away all guns and even if they did, it would not happen.

Our OP seems to have something against young men? Where is all this stuff happening? What happens when the assailant takes the gun away from the armed victim, as happens often enough? Or when the "victim" decides to take out the guy walking down the street for no reason? There are some very paranoid and fearful people who think owning a handgun is their ticket to safety. If you pay attention to the freaked-out postings on the various neighborhood social network apps you will realize how paranoid and fearful people have made themselves. Jesus Christ would be shot on sight.

Possession of a handgun does not make you invincible. It might make you vulnerable and just gives people license and false security to go someplace they should stay away from, hang with people they should not associate with, and be in unsafe places at unsafe times. Being aware and avoiding unsafe places, unsafe people and unsafe situations works better. That rule works in every city I have ever been in. Common sense is your first line of defense, not a handgun.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:05 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 2,984,842 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Somehow, women in Canada, France, Australia and elsewhere manage to get along just fine without being armed to the hilt. And somehow, women in the US, despite being armed to the hilt, seem to have a tougher time avoiding being raped. You want to avoid statistics, because they do not fit your narrative.
BUUUUUT AGAAAAIN: SOME WOMEN ARE RAPED in those countries.

What's your message to them? Tough luck because "overall we have less crime than the USA?"

Spit it out. Are you capable?
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:05 PM
 
29,768 posts, read 14,825,913 times
Reputation: 14590
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
This is yet another useless right-wing retort that gets demolished time and time again.

A criminal in Chicago need only cross the border into Indiana to avoid Chicago's strict gun laws.

That's why we democrats cite other countries, because doing so demonstrates what happens when restrictions are applied nationally.
Wrong. It proves laws don't work. At least within our own country.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,932 posts, read 9,640,884 times
Reputation: 15672
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
It's illegal to buy guns in Indiana if you are a resident of Illinois. Has been since the 1968 gun control act.

Surely you knew this?
Gang member in Chicago calls fellow gang member in Indiana to go please buy a gun in Indiana for him. Fellow Gary gang member in does so, then they meet a short time later to exchange purchased gun for money spent on gun.

Problem solved. Easily.

There needs to be a national solution. When each state sets their own laws, it's much too easy to skirt those laws.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Indiana
64 posts, read 25,512 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
The depths of right-wing paranoia are clearly evident in this thread.

In Canada, most of Western Europe, Australia and a whole bunch of other places, gun ownership is much more restrictive than in the US, and they are not "back to the primitive days" you fear. If anything, those places are more civilized than the US.
So when's the big move date? Which country have you chosen to call your new home? I trust that you have your passport and your visa application squared away.
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