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Old 02-04-2007, 09:30 PM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,178,951 times
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Here's some info from the Asia Times:

"Iran borders both the Persian Gulf and the Caspian Sea, two of the richest oil and gas regions of the world. Most importantly, it controls the gateway to the Persian Gulf - the Strait of Hormuz. Modern bottom-rising, rocket propelled sea mines and supersonic cruise missiles deployed along the long mountainous coastline of Iran, manned by "invisible" guerrillas, could indefinitely stop the flow of oil from the Gulf, from which the US gets 23% of its imported oil."

These two paragraphs get me:

" Since the US cannot correct the dictates of geography, it and its main allies Japan and the UK will have to live and fight with this tremendous geopolitical disadvantage. Of course the US can bypass this geographic obstacle if it attacks China and Russia with its intercontinental ballistic missiles, sea-launched ballistic missiles and strategic bombers in a nuclear first strike, but China and Russia have the means to retaliate and obliterate the United States and its allies as well.

"There are some among the leading neo-conservatives in the US who believe that a nuclear war is winnable; that there is no such thing as mutually assured destruction (MAD). Well, that truly mad way of thinking may well spell the end of planet earth for all of us. "

The whole article is here: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ20Ad01.html
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 42,086,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
Here's some info from the Asia Times:

"Iran borders both the Persian Gulf and the Caspian Sea, two of the richest oil and gas regions of the world. Most importantly, it controls the gateway to the Persian Gulf - the Strait of Hormuz. Modern bottom-rising, rocket propelled sea mines and supersonic cruise missiles deployed along the long mountainous coastline of Iran, manned by "invisible" guerrillas, could indefinitely stop the flow of oil from the Gulf, from which the US gets 23% of its imported oil."

These two paragraphs get me:

" Since the US cannot correct the dictates of geography, it and its main allies Japan and the UK will have to live and fight with this tremendous geopolitical disadvantage. Of course the US can bypass this geographic obstacle if it attacks China and Russia with its intercontinental ballistic missiles, sea-launched ballistic missiles and strategic bombers in a nuclear first strike, but China and Russia have the means to retaliate and obliterate the United States and its allies as well.

"There are some among the leading neo-conservatives in the US who believe that a nuclear war is winnable; that there is no such thing as mutually assured destruction (MAD). Well, that truly mad way of thinking may well spell the end of planet earth for all of us. "

The whole article is here: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ20Ad01.html
I think the article has it's geography off a little bit. The Straights of Hormuz is 2700 miles away from Iran. And it certainly does not control the choke point into the Gulf. We do. It's just off of Abu Dhabi.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
I think the article has it's geography off a little bit. The Straights of Hormuz is 2700 miles away from Iran. And it certainly does not control the choke point into the Gulf. We do. It's just off of Abu Dhabi.
Yeah I really didn't understand the premise of that article at all. Is the writer saying that the U.S. ultimate strategic plan is to attack Iran in order to launch an attack on Russia and China? Why would the U.S. want to attack Russia and China? Maybe the article was written 30 years ago?
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Yeah I really didn't understand the premise of that article at all. Is the writer saying that the U.S. ultimate strategic plan is to attack Iran in order to launch an attack on Russia and China? Why would the U.S. want to attack Russia and China? Maybe the article was written 30 years ago?
hahaha Probably was. The US pulled all of it's Ballistic Nukes off the subs in the late 80's and even decommissioned what we call the boomer fleet.
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
I think the article has it's geography off a little bit. The Straights of Hormuz is 2700 miles away from Iran. And it certainly does not control the choke point into the Gulf. We do. It's just off of Abu Dhabi.
This is what Wikipedia says about the Straits of Hormuz:

"The Strait of Hormuz (Arabic: مضيق هرمز‎ - Madīq Hurmuz, Persian: تنگه هرمز‎ - Tangeh-ye Hormoz) is a narrow, strategically important stretch of ocean between the Gulf of Oman in the southeast and the Persian Gulf in the southwest. On the north coast is Iran (Persia) and on the south coast is the United Arab Emirates and Musandam, an exclave of Oman."

Sounds like they are closer than 2700 miles and Iran is on the north coast.
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:42 PM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,178,951 times
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I had a post that vanished?!?!

The article was written in October 2006 and talks about a strategic alliance between China, Russia and Iran.

One of the things mentioned in the article was that a lot of our weapon systems are satellite guided and one way China could "neuter" us is by knocking the satellites out of the sky (or rendering them useless). This is interesting considering the uproar over the weather satellite China shot down (last month?)
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 42,086,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
This is what Wikipedia says about the Straits of Hormuz:

"The Strait of Hormuz (Arabic: مضيق هرمز‎ - Madīq Hurmuz, Persian: تنگه هرمز‎ - Tangeh-ye Hormoz) is a narrow, strategically important stretch of ocean between the Gulf of Oman in the southeast and the Persian Gulf in the southwest. On the north coast is Iran (Persia) and on the south coast is the United Arab Emirates and Musandam, an exclave of Oman."

Sounds like they are closer than 2700 miles and Iran is on the north coast.
I am so sorry. I got two straights confused. I was in the Navy and have made many trips over there. Sure enough, you are absolutely correct.

However, we control that, not them. hahaha One of our jobs was to "linger" on Sohipa. It's an imaginary box right in the middle of the straights. Our job was to escort tankers in and out so they weren't bothered.

Now I can't think of the name of that other straight. It's the one going past Singapore. See what happens when you start aging?
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
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Straights of Malaca is what I was thinking of. Again, sorry.
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Old 02-04-2007, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Port St. Lucie and Okeechobee, FL
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I'm glad you got that strait.
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Old 02-05-2007, 07:41 AM
 
14,994 posts, read 23,911,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
I had a post that vanished?!?!

The article was written in October 2006 and talks about a strategic alliance between China, Russia and Iran.

One of the things mentioned in the article was that a lot of our weapon systems are satellite guided and one way China could "neuter" us is by knocking the satellites out of the sky (or rendering them useless). This is interesting considering the uproar over the weather satellite China shot down (last month?)
The mods may have deleted it over some copyright issues, but I don't see why, you quoted the source I think.

China doesn't need to knock out our satellites, they just need the sophisticated EMP and GPS jammers like we have (I don't think they have that level of sophistication yet), but it would also require a pre-emptive strike before our countermeasures are in place and up. One EMP strike on China or Iran or whever will put the entire country or close to it in the dark. So - in Iran, Russia or China, the only way they can do us any REAL damage (aside from China using ballistic missles) is for these countries to attack us in a suprise attack type environment. After that and the initial damage to us - it's parking lot time for these countries.
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