Ted Haggard is "straight"! (drug, stereotypes, carry, gay people)

[madicarus2000]

Originally Posted by MoMark

Allah is nowhere mentioned in the Bible madicarus.

Of course you wont find Allah in your bible because you’re reading it in English (assuming you're reading a non-Arabic version). You seem to keep limiting yourself to the English language and not on translated words. Example, if you’re in Portugal and go to a restaurant and ask for a “cerveja”, you would get a beer but it appears based on your understanding you wont because you didn’t use the English word “beer”. Do you even understand that different languages have words that mean the same but because it is a different language you say it differently and it is written differently?

Originally Posted by MoMark

Where do you get same creator from? Jesus was never created. He is God.Also, you stated in your first rebuttal: "Yes, they don’t view Jesus as the “son” of god but as another prophet." How can they not view Jesus as God and still claim Allah and Jehovah are the same being when Jesus is God? You contradict yourself and somehow equate a prophet with eternal God? Nonsense.

Really, so I contradicted myself when I stated ”Muslims believed in the same God but that the Jewish and Christian faith distorted the message of their same God.” Do you understand what that meant? Apparently you don’t. One example of that distored message is that Muslims see Jesus as a prophet, Christians view Jesus as the son of God. The same God, different understanding of the message. Show me where in the Quran that I contradicted myself.

Originally Posted by MoMark

You keep claiming that Allah and Jehovah are the same, yet you offer no proof. You also claim the names are mentioned...mentioned where? Show me a Bible verse that states Jehovah has no Son and is Allah?

Maybe I should repeat it again, in referring to the Quran “Muslims believed in the same God but that the Jewish and Christian faith distorted the message of their same God.” Did I say refer to the bible to see what Muslim’s believed? Of course I could use your method and state you’re wrong when I show you a verse from the Quran to rebut your statement from the bible. Do you see or understand the difference now? “Same God, different message” how hard is it to understand that statement?

[Dedalus]

Alexandra Pelosi, Nancy's daughter, made a documentary film about religious fundies. She spent a bunch of time with the man she called Pastor Ted, and had nothing but good things to say about him. He took her camping in the Rockies, taught her how to shoot.

I never heard of him before the scandal broke. Personally, I have no problem with some fundies...like the ones that I used to see down at Project Open Hand delivering meals to AIDS victims.

And we still know nothing about what the man's orientation really is. I've seen some tweakers dosed to the gills with meth...while in that state, they might ____ an armadillo!

[MoMark]

Originally Posted by madicarus2000

Maybe I should repeat it again, in referring to the Quran “Muslims believed in the same God but that the Jewish and Christian faith distorted the message of their same God.” Did I say refer to the bible to see what Muslim’s believed? Of course I could use your method and state you’re wrong when I show you a verse from the Quran to rebut your statement from the bible. Do you see or understand the difference now? “Same God, different message” how hard is it to understand that statement?

Firstly...you do need to study the origin and application of the word "allah". You don't understand it.
Secondly, no, they are not the same God nor could they possibly be if one doesn't accept the reality of a triune God which is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and the other rejects that.
It is not the same God different message. Your claim is so outlandish as to be laughable, even from a basic standpoint of logic.
How are Christians saved? What is the point of Jesus? Why would He declare Himself as God and scripture in both the New and Old Testaments confirm that?

Jesus' Divinity:

-EPHESIANS 3:9 . . . God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
-EXODUS 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (think about what that verse is saying...clear reference of Father to Son)
-JOHN 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
-ISAIAH 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
-JOHN 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Quran rejecting Jesus as God:
"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him.

More Differences:

God's only begotten son is Jesus. Allah has no begotten son.
God made salvation available by sacrificing His Son and promises salvation by grace to those who believe. Allah sacrificed nothing, and only saves if sufficient works are done.
God has a payment for sins—Jesus Christ. Allah has no payment for sins.
God's Christ paid for the sins of mankind. Allah paid for nothing, and all men pay for their own sins.
God's salvation is through Christ's work. Allah's salvation is through people's works.
God's saving work is, "Come to Christ." The major part of Moslem salvation is to believe Mohammed was the sum and seal of the prophets.
God's book is very different from Allah's book. They contradict each other, so they cannot both be true. For example, the Bible says Christ was resurrected from the dead. The Moslems reject that as a lie.
God says his Son is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Allah says Christ is "only a messenger" (Chap. 5, "The Food" sect. 10, par. 75).
God treats men and women equally. Allah does not.
God says marriages today (Christian) are to be monogamous. Allah allows more than one wife.
There is no marriage in God's Paradise. Faithful men get many virgins in Allah's.
God says it is not necessary to have special days. Allah does: for example, Ramadan, the Moslem holy month during which Moslems fast during the day.


How you can say that Allah is Jehovah when Jehovah is the Triune God of Father, Son, Holy Spirit which "allah" rejects...it's illogical.
Believe what you will, but you are incorrect and it's clear you are incorrect. To quote you:
"How hard is it for you to understand that statement?"

A P.S.... why would Muslims call Christians infidels if we worshipped the same God? ahem...... :-D

[Dedalus]

I posted before seeing that the Pelosi film had been aired, and that people had seen it. I'd love to see it. My information came from a New York Times article about the film. Alexandra said (the article was accompanied by a photo of her with her new daughter in her arms) that she was a believer in the culture wars, and that, if it was a choice between Paris Hilton and Jesus, she'd take Jesus.

As I've said in other threads, Nancy's way to the left of me...but she has my vote regardless. She was my congresswoman when I lived in SF during the Loma Prieta quake, and she helped people. She's also not a grandstander like the Feinswine.

[madicarus2000]

Originally Posted by MoMark

Secondly, no, they are not the same God nor could they possibly be if one doesn't accept the reality of a triune God which is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and the other rejects that.

Wow, what an entirely narrow view. So by your little sophist statement, if you do not believe in the triune view of God as Christians do then your God is not the same God.

So does this mean that Jewish people follow a different God than Christians because they do not believe in the Trinity? Per Deuteronomy 6:46:4 Hear, O Israel:The LORD our God is one LORD. So Jewish people don’t have the same God as Christians by your standards since they do not believe in the Trinity?

Originally Posted by MoMark

More Differences:

Everything you quoted was supporting the difference in beliefs. Apparently you still feel you can claim a different belief is false by using the bible as your sole reference. Still nothing you showed contradicted the statement of “same God, different message”, unless I clear my mind of reason and understanding.

Originally Posted by MoMark

A P.S.... why would Muslims call Christians infidels if we worshipped the same God? ahem...... :-D

Because they view Christians as having the distorted message of the same God. That is easy to understand, but not so easy for you apparently. You can’t seem get past your little logic that if it is a different message then it must be a different God.

[MoMark]

Originally Posted by madicarus2000

Wow, what an entirely narrow view. So by your little sophist statement, if you do not believe in the triune view of God as Christians do then your God is not the same God.
Um...yeah.... an apple isn't an orange if you squeeze it and don't get orange juice. Both can be fruit, but they aren't the same fruit. So does this mean that Jewish people follow a different God than Christians because they do not believe in the Trinity? Per Deuteronomy 6:46:4 Hear, O Israel:The LORD our God is one LORD. So Jewish people don’t have the same God as Christians by your standards since they do not believe in the Trinity?

No, it's clear we worship the same God. The Christian faith considers God as One as well. Didn't you know that? The Jews don't call the Godhead a trinity it's true. However, look at Genesis 18:2 which describes the appearance of the Lord to Abraham when he was old and Sarah was childless. The Lord makes it very clear Who He is and arrives at Abraham's tent as three men, predicts a son for Abraham, tells him he will be a great nation, hears Sarah laugh at the prediction within herself, called her on it, she denied laughing, the Lord corrected her saying she did, then the Lord proceeded to reveal He was about to judge Sodom and Gomorrah and what followed was the questioning by Abraham of the Lord asking if so many righteous men were in Sodom and Gomorrah, would He destroy it, etc.
Then during Jesus' time, the Jewish scholar/historian Philo had this to say about that passage from Genesis:
"...the one in the middle is the Father of the Universe, who in the sacred scriptures is called by his proper name, I am that I am; and the beings on each side are those most ancient powers which are always close to the living God, one of which is called his creative power, and the other his royal power."
It's pretty obvious that creative power refers to Jesus and royal power to the Holy Spirit.

Everything you quoted was supporting the difference in beliefs. Apparently you still feel you can claim a different belief is false by using the bible as your sole reference. Still nothing you showed contradicted the statement of “same God, different message”, unless I clear my mind of reason and understanding.

Everything I've quoted has blatantly showed that Allah and Jehovah are not the same..

I'm enjoying this debate with you actually, but not understanding your refusal to see the forest for the trees.

[domergurl]

Let's get back to Ted Haggard being "completely heterosexual" please.

[madicarus2000]

Originally Posted by MoMark

an apple isn't an orange if you squeeze it and don't get orange juice. Both can be fruit, but they aren't the same fruit

Well if you squeeze the fruit but two people taste it and one says it is sweet and the other says it is tart, does that mean they didn’t taste the same fruit? Or is that it was the same fruit but a difference in taste? How about when the second person taste the juice after time has passed from when the first person tasted it? Flavor can change over time. After all, Islam did come after Christianity.

Originally Posted by MoMark

No, it's clear we worship the same God. The Christian faith considers God as One as well. Didn't you know that? The Jews don't call the Godhead a trinity it's true.

However Jews don’t believe in the trinity as Christians do, therefore by your prior statements ”they are not the same God nor could they possibly be if one doesn't accept the reality of a triune God which is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and the other rejects that”. Yes, Judiasm rejects that Christian belief. They believe in the "Oneness" and not the "Oneness comprised of three parts" or of any parts. So they must not be the same God based on your statement.

Originally Posted by MoMark

Everything I've quoted has blatantly showed that Allah and Jehovah are not the same..
I'm enjoying this debate with you actually, but not understanding your refusal to see the forest for the trees.

No, you only blantanly showed the message believed by Christians based on the bible whereas I clearly showed the belief by Muslims of the same God but a different set of beliefs based on the Quran. I see your point but your refusing to see mine.

To please Domergurl, Teddy is still gay but back in the closet.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by madicarus2000

To please Domergurl, Teddy is still gay but back in the closet.

Thank you very much

[sprtsluvr8]

Maybe he can become straight by getting in a few fistfights, or having casual sex with some different women (Mrs. Ted may not go for that), or lifting weights (muscles are SOOOO in), or playing some rugged sports, or growing a mustache...all fine masculine-seeming activities that straight men do, right? That's what makes a man straight right? His actions?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's something deeper and more complicated than acting a certain way. It's not a act people. An act is Ted Haggard telling the world he's cured of his gayness; better yet, it's Ted H. living that double life for all those years, deceiving his wife and all of the people who worship him. Incidentally he'll be back in that role sooner or later, probably as a bigger superstar than ever before.