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Old 02-11-2009, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,381 posts, read 14,576,162 times
Reputation: 3520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
The cost of a military invasion of Iran (armed to the teeth by the US) would have been the death of the 52 US hostages that were held by the Islamists and almost certainly war with the Soviets.
That is where you have no clue to what you are posting. Just after the radicals took the US Embassy, they ran over to the Russians and started to take that place too. The Iranian guards from the Mullah's fired shots and told them to leave.

The Mullah's knew full well that if they took the Russian Embassy, they Russians would blow most of Iran off the map.

Then Carter wringing his hands for almost a year before launching a rescue mission, there was all sorts of contingency plans to kill the hostages by then. Had the US gone in there during the first week, there was so much confusion, most could have been saved if not all. By the end of the year, the students had mostly be replaced with the hard core extremist of the Mullah's. At that point you are correct they hostages would have been killed.

They were afraid of Reagan before he was sworn in as President, his comment was to the effect "If those Barbarians think they are going to get a better deal from me, they are going to be sadly mistaken". The hostages were released as he was being sworn in as President, they didn't want to find out if he was bluffing.

Carter is the one that displayed weakness and they could smell it, and they were right. He is the one that sold out the Shah which brought us to this point in History.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,843 posts, read 2,371,619 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
That is where you have no clue to what you are posting. Just after the radicals took the US Embassy, they ran over to the Russians and started to take that place too. The Iranian guards from the Mullah's fired shots and told them to leave.

The Mullah's knew full well that if they took the Russian Embassy, they Russians would blow most of Iran off the map.

Then Carter wringing his hands for almost a year before launching a rescue mission, there was all sorts of contingency plans to kill the hostages by then. Had the US gone in there during the first week, there was so much confusion, most could have been saved if not all. By the end of the year, the students had mostly be replaced with the hard core extremist of the Mullah's. At that point you are correct they hostages would have been killed.

They were afraid of Reagan before he was sworn in as President, his comment was to the effect "If those Barbarians think they are going to get a better deal from me, they are going to be sadly mistaken". The hostages were released as he was being sworn in as President, they didn't want to find out if he was bluffing.

Carter is the one that displayed weakness and they could smell it, and they were right. He is the one that sold out the Shah which brought us to this point in History.
The first week? After Brzezinski had courted Khomeini for more than a year, and managed to convice Carter that the Islamic Fundamentalist movement would lead to uprisings inside the Soviet Union in the Southern Republics that bordered Iran? You would have expected the USA to then immediately go into Iran militarily and depose Khomeini? Brzezinski was delighted when the Soviets entered Afghanistan. He urged Carter to begin clandestine aid to the Mujahadeen immediately to further provoke the Russians. He said about his strategy with the two countries, "It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?" There wasn't the slightest possibility of the USA acting against Khomeini after working so hard to bring him to power.

It is unfortunate, but these weren't the actions of vaccillating weakilings. They knew exactly what they were doing, which was "Bear baiting" as they called it back then. Unfortunately like countless other ill-concieved Cold War adventures the outcome wasn't at all what they really wanted. Islamic Fundamentalism did spread to parts of the USSR, but was brutally suppressed. It also found its way into the Balkan States where it remains a problem to this day. The Soviet-Afghanistani war that Brzezinski claims to have started drained the USSR financially and contributed to their collapse, but much later. Carter acted on not only the advice of his Secretary of State and Under-Secretary George Ball (part of the brain trust that got us into Viet Nam), but that of our allies the British as well.

The strategy fell apart almost as soon as it began, and put the whole Administration in disarray. Carter erred badly in his choice of almost his entire Cabinet and White House Staff, and he listened to and followed some terrible advice typical of what came from the Hawks of that period. His failure in the region was one of imagination though, and not of will as some revisionists would have it. All of these "countries" and their borders were created by the Allies after WWII with two objectives in mind (1) to "gerrymander" arab power and maintain the dominant role of the West and (2) to establish and maintain the elusive "balance of power", not only with the Eastern Bloc, but within their own ranks as well. Carter's State Department (with his blessing) blundered in and upset that balance, and there's been Hell to pay ever since.

Ugly Fact about Carter, Brzezinski and Afghanistan - Democratic Underground

Zbigniew Brzezinski

Map of the Iran-Iraq War
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,532,369 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
Then Carter wringing his hands for almost a year before launching a rescue mission, there was all sorts of contingency plans to kill the hostages by then. Had the US gone in there during the first week, there was so much confusion, most could have been saved if not all. By the end of the year, the students had mostly be replaced with the hard core extremist of the Mullah's. At that point you are correct they hostages would have been killed.

They were afraid of Reagan before he was sworn in as President, his comment was to the effect "If those Barbarians think they are going to get a better deal from me, they are going to be sadly mistaken". The hostages were released as he was being sworn in as President, they didn't want to find out if he was bluffing.

Carter is the one that displayed weakness and they could smell it, and they were right. He is the one that sold out the Shah which brought us to this point in History.
Ummm..........You really dont know what you are blathering about, its Carter's (and the past history of the United States support of the repressive dictator the Shah) that caused the revolution to take place in the first place. Our deposing of democracy in 1953 and training of SAVAK and our military training, hardware and support to the Shah caused this to happen in the first place. Khomeni ran out of time after 444 days and had to fold. His safety was dependent on releasing these hostages, which he did. They have been free of American influence ever since.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,381 posts, read 14,576,162 times
Reputation: 3520
To respond to the Question that started the thread:

"How do you justify all the American dead in Iraq"

My answer:

By all the Americans living that haven't.

Pretty simple answer, but clearly many of you won't be able to grasp it.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,736,880 times
Reputation: 20050
hmmmm oil oil oil oil oil gaurd the oil oil oil war ...thats what is all about.. domestic energy is our key to succsess for a failing economy and to leave iraq for good!!!! and say to the middle east we don't need your oil anymore.
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