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coldcanadian, you are so right. There were free blacks in Charleston, New Orleans, Natchez MS, Atlanta, Richmond and many other southern states. The richest man in Mississippi prior to the war was a black business man in Natchez Miss. He was called the barber of Natchez and owned slaves himself.
Hi Coldcanadian and Carolinjack
Thank you for bringing this up. I always felt this subject was a very taboo subject because the over "political correct" climate gets in the way of teaching the truth. Talking about a minority with a minority is touchie. Since you guys brought this up I will talk about it since my grandmother came from one of those creole families. Those free black people were not really "black". And if you would of called them that, they would of been offended. During the Antebellum era the term used back then was, "Gens de couleur libres". After the Civil War "Free people of color"were called "Creole de couleur". Many gens de couleur prided themselves on their elegant European culture, descent and phenotype. They often had a very good command of the French language, to distinct themselves from the bastardized French Creole language spoken by the slaves. All of this eventually created what is to be known as "Colorism".
See unlike the British, the French and the Spaniards had a different outlook when it came to interracial relationships. When colonial cities were founded in Lousiana and Saint-Domingue(now Haiti) there were no white women available since it was not a suitable place for an unmarried European woman to live in a hostile frontier area. Besides premarital sex with white women was not appropriate. So the Frenchman carefully chose the most pretty black or Indian girl for their long-term companionship. These unions produced such a devastatingly exotic and beautiful women forever changing the lives of many. A lot of the most distinguished New Orleans/Charleston families actually began with a black or mixed-race foremother. (The Casket Girls brought over from France looked after by the nuns did not come years after the city was settled.) As the years passed by, this new racial group grew in numbers and affluence. The colonial government developed a system to keep the creole des couleurs in check with the Code Noir. One of the most significant was Plaçage. This was a costume which a wealthy young white Creole man in New Orleans entered into something equivalent of a modern day common-law marriage with a mixed raced women. A lucky few were proposed marriage and would have to move to France in other to legally marry, since they could not do so in the south. However most of the cases, these white men would end up marrying a white woman in their mid to late 20's. As was the tradition back then.
The Quadroon balls were a grand and important part of the social season; thus equivalent to a white southern belle's debutante ball. This is where the most illustrious gens des couleur families would introduce their nubile daughters to the young adult sons of wealthy French aristocrats, plantation owners, top ranking military men, city administrators, and the well-heeled bourgeoisie. During the ball the young man could choose from a myriad of skin tones and looks. All types of mixes were there ranging from exotic mulatto, to the quadroons whose 1/4 African ancestry and 3/4 european ancestry usually produced a striking look. The octoroon and quintroon creoles with their fine features and pale skin would of been labeled as a "Pass Blanc" by polite society. However all these girls shared an unparallel refined elegance that most out of town visitors were taken by them. From the moment they were born they were groomed for this. There would be a period of a formal courtship and the young girl would be carefully watched by an older lady while she entertained her suitor. Once a proper match would be agreed on. The young girl's mother or chaperone would arrange the monetary terms with the young man's father. Notarizing everything to make sure the ingenue's future would be secure and everything taken care for by giving her a nice house, with a slave/servants and a nice monthly amount of money for clothes, jewels etc.
Sometimes the man would end the relationship or sometimes be content in keeping both, his mixed and white family. The white family was aware of having mixed half siblings since the white creoles men recognized their biracial children by giving them his surname and including them in their inheritance. White creole men kept both families seperate from one another and forbidden from ever speaking to each other. There was a time when these half brothes and sisters could see each other without any punishment. Attending the French Opera house was a place where both families could look at one another. The mixed raced half-siblings from their balcony seats could look up the boxes to see their white relatives. For some other girls there were more favorable situations when he never married a white woman. In those circumstances he would leave his whole estate to his placée and only heirs. Over the years many of these creoles became very rich and powerful. Living just as extravagantly as the aristocratic French families.
New Orleans during the 19th century was the most European city in the United States. When the dawn of the 20th century came the city was becoming more and more "Americanized". Slowly the French language was being heard less and less on the streets. The genteel costumes of the French Creoles became outdated. The elegant Vieux Carré had become no longer the fashionable part of town and began to get rundown. Eventually the time came when this small coterie of "gens est "femmes des couleur" would be either absorbed into the white population after thinning out their black genes after many generations. Other's became disenchanted, and began to identify more with their black roots. They created the new intellectual black elite. Aware of how fortunate to be well educated, they began to speak against the injusticies for the ones that could not defend themselves. Other's started schools for disadvantaged blacks. People like W.E.D. Dubois helped found the NAACP.
Finally writting all of this it leaves me with melancholic emotions with a bittersweet taste in my mouth. At the same time I hope that in the future, we can treat each other no matter how different, we may be from one another with more humility and dignity. Thank you for letting me share this.
Ani
Maybe because I've always lived in Canada, I've never understood why simply talking about some black people being free in the Old South and some black people owning slaves could be upsetting.
If it was fact, I don't see a problem...
Last edited by ColdCanadian; 03-20-2007 at 10:22 AM..
Never heard that one before. The definition of a slave is to be mistreated.
Theoretically being a slave is obviously unfair and could be equated to mistreatment. But humans aren't computer programs.
I heard quite a few in the Old South, (and probably everyplace that ever had slavery) disliked the practice and not everyone who bought a slave was think "Ow wow, all this work for practically nothing, and I'll have people to practially worship 'ME'; it's not like I'll give them a choice, because I am worth it." Obviously the overly proud slave owners probably made some of the worst masters.
But let say you were interested in finding a worker back in the 17th century, depending on your location, there might not be any "free people" around, able to work for you. Most of America was wilderness back then so this could have happened a lot. Then there are these slave traders with people just standing around. Why not buy a slave to fill the position in that case? That does not mean that the person who bought the slave will turn into a bad person and make the slave's life hell. Some people might have even become friends with there slaves, which could also help explain how some slaves were able to eventually become free before the war, and without escaping up north.
It is a subject most people are uncomfortable hearing about since it shows the even a minority will oppress another minority if they have the chance. That is something people dont like to hear.
Yes, there were slaves in the north. Did you know that the northern states BANNED freed slaves? Yes, they did. It was unlawful for a freed black person to move to most northern states. Hmm, so they are supposedly fighting this war to free all people but they don't want them living in THEIR states. Can we say hypocrite. The southern states had no such laws. The Civil War was NOT all about slavery and as has been pointed out our school systems are too dadgum pc to teach the real truth about the Civil War. Like the fact that when the southern states seceded from the union it cut off most of the trade to the northern states. The majority of the ports used to import and export our goods were in the South. When these ports then fell under the southern states rule the taxes/tariffs paid stopped going to the northern states. The northern states did not have the ports to support a good economic trade commerce. Money, MONEY was the reason for the Civil War. By enacting laws to forbid freed "colored" persons from living in their states they were not sympathizers to them at all otherwise they would not have done such. Also, not all slave owners were bad nor tormentors. One needs to really think back to how life was at that time. The crops would be harvested and the "master" or owner of said crops would then take them to the nearest port or trade office. This trip could take days, more likely several weeks. He would most likely take several of his slaves w/ him to help along the way. He would sell the harvest be it indigo, wheat or cotton. Then they would return to the farm or plantation. A slave that was beaten down and not taken care of was of no use, I will say that I am sure there are many slave owners that probably did beat them but not all, they needed them to work to help support them. I have one ancestor that in his will gave his "plantation" and all of his belongings to the family of slaves that he had. None of his grown children wanted the family land as they had all moved to other states so he gave it to them. In his will he calls them his "friends" and "slaves".
Did you also know that most early settlers to the Colony were slaves INCLUDING white Europeans. Many of our early countrymen were indentured servants to the ships captians that brought them to the new land. I myself come from many of these "slaves" or "indentured servants". This was long before the American Revolution.
Thanks anigirli well posted!! I know exactly what you are talking about as i am part of the charleston lowcountry and south louisiana creole culture and have many many family histories of the same ilk
Many symbols throughout history have have their meaning bastardized by other groups. What do you immediately think of when you see this symbol?
Do you think of cave men?
Archaeological evidence of swastika shaped ornaments goes back to the stone age.
Do you think of the sacred Hindu symbol?
The swastika is used in religious and civil ceremonies in Hindu countries. Most Indian temples are decorated with swastikas.
Do you think of Chinese art?
In Chinese, Korean, and Japanese art, the swastika is often found as part of a repeating pattern.
How about ancient Troy?
The swastika symbol was found extensively in the ruins of the ancient city of Troy.
Do you think "that's that ancient Roman symbol"?
A border of linked swastikas was a common Roman architectural motif.
I know, you think of the Laguna Bridge in Arizona.
The Laguna Bridge in Yuma, Arizona was built in 1905 by the U.S. Reclamation Department and is decorated with a row of swastikas.
No - you think of none of these things. What you think of is the Third-Reich, Nazi Germany, the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and a house painter that almost rose to rule the world. Why? Because the symbol was chosen to represent Nazi Germany - and that is all anyone will ever think of when they see it from now until the end of time.
Now - can you see where certain groups might think that the confederate flag is offensive? Can you see that it means oppression, hatred, murder and torture to blacks who grew up in the South during that era? Can you understand that it still may an offensive meaning to black people today?
I hope my post didn't offend anyone. I'm just trying to make you think - not offend you. I hope I succeeded.
happy and married who are you asking the question of? No one here is saying that the flag or symbols are not offesnive to us as blacks, we acknowledge that, but doesnt mean that one should not be able to fly it--seeing as there are lots of flags and symbols that can be and are offensive to people.
Everyone - to show that some images have been bastardized to the point of bringing only one thing to mind when they are seen by the majority of people.
People have to remember that while some images may have no ill meaning to them, other's see them as repressive, hateful object that bring back painful memories.
There's nothing wrong with the Confederate Flag... not a darn thing.
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and Carolinjack
