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Old 03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,451,330 times
Reputation: 3050

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
What's pathetic is posts such as yours. What doe Sarah Palin have to do with anything other than you are obsessed with working her name into every thread you can?

But since you did, just for fun, economist Thomas Sowell writing about Republicans infighting said that:
  • John McCain led Barack Obama in the polls last year for the first time after Governor Sarah Palin joined the ticket, and that,
  • He [McCain] would have had no chance at all with someone else, if that person was as inconsistent and inarticulate as himself.
  • Republicans who are embarrassed by Governor Palin are also embarrassed by others in the Party who articulate principles, instead of trying "to be in step with the fashions of the time — fashions set by liberals"
  • Finally he says that perhaps Republicans that value so highly being accepted by the liberal elitists, should be embarrassed by the "narrowness" of these people, who simply demonize those they disagree with, rather than answering their arguments (and we see that here on the C-D forum, do we not?)
The point here is that no matter what you leftists say or think about Palin, there are plenty of people of stature who do not agree with you. She is seen as articulate, and as one who is not embarrassed by her conservatism. She is willing to stand on her principles. Exactly what we need.

Perhaps she will turn up at some Tea Parties. We should be so lucky (and I mean that seriously).


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Old 03-17-2009, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,068,891 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
The point is your little burg thought it fine until the USSC declared the law Unconstitutional....
It was fine and it still is. The change to our gun laws was very modest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Perhaps you could show where it is written that secession is unconstitutional?
Texas v. White
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,503,289 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Texas v. White
TX v White, huh? Written by the most radical anti-secessionist Republican, Salmon Chase, and the commentary on secession is non-binding dicta. Easily torn to pieces in less than two typed pages of analysis, because his commentary was based entirely on his own views of American history and not on the Constitution or even an accurate view of American history. The Constitution does not prohibit secession therefore it's a power reserved by the states or the people, under the 10th Amendment. Furthermore, Chase's reference to the Articles of COnfederation saying "the Union shall be perpetual" is incorrect because Article II says the following: "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled."

Furthermore, the Constitution only applied(s) to those states that consent to it. Article 7 of the Constitution:
"The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same."

The supposed "perpetual union" statement in the Articles of COnfederation that Chase's entire argument relies on was dissolved at the constitutional convention in the 1780's and a new union created, that only applied to those states consenting to the new union. And of course, the 10th Amendment says:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Secession is not prohibited, therefore, the states and people have a right to secede.

Our founding fathers believed in popular sovereignty, not eternal governments without consent by the governed. From the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Chase's argument fails miserably. Of course it was not based on either an accurate reading of American history nor on the Constitution so that is no surprise. And it should be noted that Chase himself was partly responsible for no Confederate being charged with treason. He stated the following on that subject:

"If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion. We cannot convict him of treason."

Texas v. White, though was a safe case for him to rant in non-binding dicta against secession since it merely involved some bonds. He did not want to risk a trial where the feds would lose, as it would have entirely discredited the government and its mass murder (a.k.a., civil war, in which over 600,000 people died) and would have lead to the Southern states re-asserting their independence. But in TX v White it was simply bonds, no big treason trial to worry about losing.
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,875,929 times
Reputation: 2519
Durn....you made him shut up....

good job.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 16,211,393 times
Reputation: 33001
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The Constitution does not prohibit secession therefore it's a power reserved by the states or the people, under the 10th Amendment.
Interesting. I had never thought of it that way before. Good observation.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
That's how the South was able to secede prior to the Civil War. They did nothing illegal. They did it for economic reasons and the North didn't like that.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:46 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,208,846 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by songgirl View Post
garbage. It's completely a Republican thing that has been in the planning stages since the day Obama took office.

it certainly looks that way. there are however many of us who didn't vote for dubya or mccain, who want to voice our concerns over the govt bailouts and stimulus. i voted gore and kerry and if you read my posts at the time, i considered voting obama even though i disagreed with all of his policies. i knew at the time that there'd be no difference in foreign policy, fiscal policy and especially monetary policy other than a few cosmetic changes.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:47 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,208,846 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
It's a mnemonic.
thought it was an acronym?
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:50 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,849,020 times
Reputation: 1033
I would love to see you few secede and watch your arses get handed to you under the 14 ammendment. You treasoness bastards deserve it. So go for it.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:52 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,208,846 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
That is where you and other leftists are wrong...

Beck is not a Republican.
I am not either....I did not vote for McCain.
beck is an idiot. i watched his interview with rob kampia from the marijuana policy project and he was just pathetic. he's about as libertarian as rush limbo!
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