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[quote=delusianne;8196149***
In another report published in the journal Geophysical Letters, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reports that ice is melting much more rapidly than expected in the Arctic as well, based on new computer analyses and recent ice measurements.
[/QUOTE]
Not arguing that the melting is not happening but NOAA did publish earlier that there had been a problem with the satelites (drift of some sort) and that this data had led to some errors that made it appear that the ice shelf was melting more rapidly. Can't find the exact report right now or I would have linked it.
You are correct sir. But as this thread proves, the global warming deniers, who turn science into politics and reality into fantasy, are not going to be persuaded with facts.
They simply will not believe their lying eyes
I think people will believe the facts when they lead conclusively to a particular conclusion. This is becoming less the case all the time, as more & more scientists step up & voice their disagreement with what many larmists like to call the "consensus opinion". The number of known & respected scientists who now count themselves among these "dissenters" is over 700. Here's a report from the U.S. Senate Committee on The Envoronment & Public Works, which report was released in December of 2008 and has been updated since to include those higher numbers. Here's a paragraph from the intro to that report, "The chorus of skeptical scientific voices grow louder in 2008 and 2009 as a steady stream of peer-reviewed studies, analyses, real world data and inconvenient developments challenged the UN’s and former Vice President Al Gore's claims that the "science is settled" and there is a "consensus." On a range of issues, 2008 and 2009 proved to be challenging for the promoters of man-made climate fears."
I'm not saying there is no global warming. I'm saying that for too long, those who want to blame climate change, and global warming in particular, on human activity have been able to do so using as their chief tools, fear & oppression of opposing ideas. This paragraph from that same introduction hints at those tactics, "Skeptical scientists are gaining recognition despite what many say is a bias against them in parts of the scientific community and are facing significant funding disadvantages. Dr. William M. Briggs, a climate statistician who serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee, explained that his colleagues described “absolute horror stories of what happened to them when they tried getting papers published that explored non-‘consensus’ views.” In a March 4, 2008, report Briggs described the behavior as “really outrageous and unethical … on the parts of some editors. I was shocked.”
It looks like FINALLY there is going to be real debate and study of the issue. It's about time. Until then, if the scientists, people who have devoted their entire adult lives to this field, can't agree on what is happening & why, how are we, who have at best a cursory understanding of the surface issues, supposed to categorically agree with any point of view? And vote to allow our government to spend millions, even billions of dollars, to make changes that may be based on incorrect, biased, agenda- promoting theories?
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One Antarctic ice shelf has quickly vanished, another is disappearing and glaciers are melting faster than anyone thought due to climate change, U.S. and British government researchers reported on Friday.
They said the Wordie Ice Shelf, which had been disintegrating since the 1960s, is gone and the northern part of the Larsen Ice Shelf no longer exists. More than 3,200 square miles (8,300 square km) have broken off from the Larsen shelf since 1986.
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In another report published in the journal Geophysical Letters, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reports that ice is melting much more rapidly than expected in the Arctic as well, based on new computer analyses and recent ice measurements.
The U.N. Climate Panel projects that world atmospheric temperature will rise by between 1.8 and 4.0 degrees Celsius because of emissions of greenhouse gases that could bring floods, droughts, heat waves and more powerful storms.
This is excellent news... I wish we could help speed up the process even more but we are only humans. I'm going to capitalize on this natural occurrence and invest money into sun tan lotion companies and tinting technologies.
As much as I am suspicious of politicizing the global warming crisis, because I fear that politics will ignore real science over expediency and political gain. Politicians and spineless bureaucrats are willing to believe in creationism if it gets them votes and keep their jobs safe.
I do think only a fool who has no concern for personal responsibility will ignore real or not, global warming concerns and try to reduce their own personal impact.
We live in a very large terrarium with no outside supports minus the sun. We morally owe it to future generations to be responsible for letting our kids inherit a planet that is at the very least as clean as it is now.
As a libertarian, the argument comes down to geolibertarian concepts of property rights. For example if my neighbour poured bleach all over my garden, I would be within my rights to sue him for damages. Why then should my neighbour get away with the same offense just because a future generation isn't born and able to sue in kind.
It simply comes doewn to logic, morality and common sense, play it safe and be responsible. Here are some tip which can make a big impact. Ten Personal Solutions to Global Warming | Union of Concerned Scientists
Last edited by mcmastersteve; 04-05-2009 at 05:08 PM..
You are correct sir. But as this thread proves, the global warming deniers, who turn science into politics and reality into fantasy, are not going to be persuaded with facts.
They simply will not believe their lying eyes
It is a shame that some will use provocative language to stifle dissent.
Scientists calculate that thicker ice that is two or more years old now makes up less than 10% of the Arctic's wintertime ice cover, about one-third the average levels seen annually from 1981 to 2000, according to a study reported Monday by a team of scientists at the University of Colorado at Boulder. That is equivalent to a decline of 278,000 square miles of ice, a surface area larger than Texas.
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Scientists from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., have now used satellite data to create the first map of sea ice over the entire Arctic basin. Their chief finding, based on data from 2005 and 2006, is that older arctic ice is on average nearly nine feet thick. Submarine measurements from the 1980s found that the ice then had been more than 4½ feet thicker, according to Ronald Kwok of NASA's Jet Propulsion lab.
"The sea-ice changes we're seeing go hand-in-hand with temperature changes," says Walt Meier of the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado. "There really isn't another overriding mechanism we see that can cause these long-term changes."
Seems like we have a few American and British research scientists smart enough to realize where there funding comes from; big hint alert! Ministry of Environments.
Just like any other career, if you want to keep your paycheck, it's always better to produce reports your boss wants to hear. Damn the statistics.
Scientists will always follow the path of funding wherever it leads them.
This is incredible.
A massive ice shelf is disappearing and this person is so determined to deny it to protect his/her ideology that he blames it on .... funding.
I understand that, by acknowledging global warming, you would have to acknowledge that humans cannot be trusted with unregulated free markets and that it undermines your entire worldview.
An ice shelf - gone. You can't spin that. You can't make that up. You can't tweak that with fake numbers.
Island nations are abandoning their homelands because their islands are being consumed by rising waters. All the statistics point to a marked increase precisely aligned with the industrial revolution.
Please. Make these markets work to solve this crisis for your children, whether you believe we cause this problem or not.
Scientists calculate that thicker ice that is two or more years old now makes up less than 10% of the Arctic's wintertime ice cover, about one-third the average levels seen annually from 1981 to 2000, according to a study reported Monday by a team of scientists at the University of Colorado at Boulder. That is equivalent to a decline of 278,000 square miles of ice, a surface area larger than Texas.
***
Scientists from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., have now used satellite data to create the first map of sea ice over the entire Arctic basin. Their chief finding, based on data from 2005 and 2006, is that older arctic ice is on average nearly nine feet thick. Submarine measurements from the 1980s found that the ice then had been more than 4½ feet thicker, according to Ronald Kwok of NASA's Jet Propulsion lab.
"The sea-ice changes we're seeing go hand-in-hand with temperature changes," says Walt Meier of the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado. "There really isn't another overriding mechanism we see that can cause these long-term changes."
Well, but they're two different measurements undertaken by two different groups at two different times, using different technologies.
The NSDIC mis-measurement that the Feb. 20, 2009 bloomberg article talks about began in January 2009 and was caught in February 2009; the Apr. 6, 2009 wsj article is about a study which covers data from 2005 and 2006, undertaken by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
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