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Old 09-25-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,695,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
This is actually a brilliant point. I'm a physician and I'm one of these spoiled people that war never really affects. I can admit it. I sympathize with soldiers because I treat them in the VA and I can say without a doubt, they are the best Americans. Despite their struggles, they are always grateful for their medical care and always treat me with respect unlike my non-military patients. They often don't have the same material ambitions the rest of us have. Contrary to what people think, these people don't always enlist because they believe in war or the wars we are engaged in; they enlist out of a sense of duty to this country and believe in this country. They are content with the basics like being healthy and being able to support their family. I think it's easy to wage war in part because the people who fight these wars are not children of the people making the decision to go to war.

If a draft was mandatory and children of politicians, doctors, lawyers, Fortune 500 CEO's and entertainers, the country would not be so quick to go to war like we are now.
Very valid points. One of the great ironies for me was during the run-up to the Iraq war, several of my friends who were conservatives and very pro-war had children who wanted to enlist and lo and behold the parents were 'no, absolutely not.' It was okay for other people's children (like mine) to go fight their trumped up war, but not their child.

Me, liberal that I am, have two sons who enlisted with my blessings. Go figure.
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:54 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,803,646 times
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Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Very valid points. One of the great ironies for me was during the run-up to the Iraq war, several of my friends who were conservatives and very pro-war had children who wanted to enlist and lo and behold the parents were 'no, absolutely not.' It was okay for other people's children (like mine) to go fight their trumped up war, but not their child.

Me, liberal that I am, have two sons who enlisted with my blessings. Go figure.

I remember seeing figure a few years back where 24 Dem. Senators had served vs 7 Rep. .
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:28 AM
 
2,842 posts, read 2,327,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
As one of those "privileged elite officers", I'll call BS on this post. Every front line unit is commanded by one of more officers. Officer share the same risks and privations as their enlisted soldiers and sailors.

I was in the Navy so I can't speak from direct experience, but it's my understanding from talking to retire Army and Marine "Elite Officers" that today's infantry is much more made up of middle class soldiers than the cannon fodder that was drafted during the earlier wars.

Correct you were in the Navy , where poverty stricken Phillipino stewards are recruited to shine officers shoes, and cant speak fron expeirence.

My expierence, as a Platoon Sgt. in Vietnam, was that when the Lt. didn't
show up as we headed out, intel showed we were in for an ambush.
Man I hear you. It's still like that today. My LT never ran a single mission with our battalion recon teams. Claimed he had to stay on the radio to "direct" us.

And the numbers don't lie. Fact is that officers make up over 16% of the military:

Job Opportunities in the Armed Forces

Yet, in our latest war in Iraq, they only account for slightly less than 5% of the wounded and KIA if you add them up. And I bet that if took out the casualties from random IED's the number of wounded officers would drop to almost zero. The fact is, with the exception of line 2LT's that have no choice but to lead patrols, they don't run the missions that get soldiers wounded or killed in this war or any other. At last count, officers have a 40% lower mortality rate than the enlisted troops in Iraq. And the higher their rank, the less likely they are to be anywhere near the action. It's always been that way.

In Iraq, fewer killed, more are wounded - International Military Forums

As an example of the disparity of treatment, they also get awarded the medals at a much higher rate than enlisted, even though they run far fewer missions as pointed out in this AF Times article.

Officers awarded more medals proportionally - Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times

Nobody will ever convince me that officers pull their weight in combat. It's NCO's that do all the leading on the battlefield. Always has been.
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:23 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,803,646 times
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Well, I know, fact certain, that an SS on an academy grad is about as meaninful as a GCM on an NCO.

But I must give the Officer Corp credit where credit is due.
I joined as a 17 yr old HS dropout from an inmpovrished backout, left at 28 because the corruption
I saw on a daily basis sickened me.
At 32, I graduated from a major university with highest honors, if they had not shown me by word and deed, that any idiot can graduate from college, I doubt if the idea of going would have ever occurred to me.
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