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Let's take this out of the category of theory for a moment. I have relatives-by-marriage, a young woman who is the child of my wife's cousin, and her husband, and their two kids. Neither parent went to college. Both are trying hard to find good jobs but both can only find low-paying jobs. It is believed that between them they bring in about $40,000/year. One of their kids is in high school; the other isn't there yet. They have been evicted from their apartment along with all the other tenants by a new owner who plans to do some minor upgrades and boost rents. This family is paying $750/month rent and can't afford more with two kids and the other expenses. And they can't find an apartment at that rate. They will be forced to pay more and they will have to cut back somewhere else.
I don't know their financial details but I do know that they live poor. They do not spend money on unnecessary items, fun, cars, technology, etc. And at an average of about $10/hour they struggle and barely make it. They both come from poor families so they are not accustomed to living high and don't.
The high-paying jobs have and continue to diminish. They are being replaced with minimum wage jobs and other low wage jobs. Businesses often only offer 20 or 30 hours per week so as to avoid having to pay for employee benefits, so people often have to have two jobs to make ends meet.
How does a single parent making $12/hour survive??
More and more, minimum wages are paid to adults with kids. That makes it necessary for the minimum wage to be a living wage.
Out of the category of theory and in to the category of the anecdotal.
You identify the real problem in the bolded but you don't let it lead you to the right solution. The problem is that high paying jobs are being replaced by low paying jobs, not that low paying jobs don't pay enough. Any real solution is going to have to involve bringing some of those high paying jobs back or creating/nurturing an environment where more of them can be created. Artificially propping up the minimum wage acts as a band-aid that ignores the real problem and can do more harm than good especially in the long run.
Minimum wage.
An entry level job has always been and should always be a job reserved for high school kids and the like.
Adult degenerates and immigrants have tried to make flipping burgers a career and therefore beg for more free money at the expense of the consumer as consumable costs will have to rise.
Keep flipping burgers a childs job, close the border, force adults to get "real jobs"...SIMPLE!
Not necessarily true. Most of what we buy today is produced by huge multinational corporations. For all businesses, but particularly for the big corporations, they cannot and do not price according to what it costs to produce the items. The price is established by what the market will bear. In idealized textbook theory it is said that price is determined by cost of production plus a nice little modest profit. Not true. That's idealized and sounds good but is false. Corporations today can produce more of just about anything than people could ever consume. So products are marketed according to how abundance or lack affects the price with a goal of maximizing the price to the max that the market will bear. And therefore since pricing is already the maximum that the market will bear, increased costs of production due to higher wages are not passed on to the consumer. Again, this is especially true of the large corporations. Not so much for the small town plumber or sandwich shop.
Past increases in the minimum wage show that while it can harm the small businessman, even that levels-out after 3-5 years. So even that is temporary as it is also very limited. And the reason it levels out is that the wage increase creates additional spending, and additional spending creates increased demand for those goods, and increased demand is the real driver of a good economy. Businesses step up to the plate to meet the increased demand and often must hire additional workers to do it. That increase in employment improves wages and in turn creates still more demand as the additional wages are spent.
The thing that makes an economy robust and good for all is not money saved, but money added to circulation. And that is what raising the minimum wage does.
While you are marginally correct on the last point, you are so very wrong on the rest. That is leftwing economic theory which dismisses the ONLY one tried and true law of economics, which revolves around supply and demand. That law applies to products, services, jobs, and everything else, right down to the costs of an hour with a hooker. This law cannot be dismissed, or escaped. When demand is greater than supply, the price increases. When supply is greater than demand, prices fall. Every freaking time, no exception.
Now you can manipulate supply and demand, but you must work with it. It never, ever, goes away. Never has, never will.
So your claim that goods and services are already maxed out to the very limit of what the market will bear is total nonsense. It sounds very convincing, but is really pure BS. You need only look at gasoline prices to realize how faulty such an idea is. Just a couple years ago, gas was $4, but now it is $2. What happened,? Did the market change so rapidly regarding what it could bear? No. Supply and demand. (As well as artificial manipulation of supply, high and low, to affect geopolitical agendas, with the price of gasoline rising and falling as an unavoidable result).
As for imposing a minimum wage if any amount, the unintended consequences negate the results promised, because it is based on two foolish notions ... it insinuates the possibility that supply and demand can be bypassed without negative consequences ... while believing that simple solutions can solve extremely complex problems. Fact is, simple solutions to complex problems can only succeed in the simple minds that promote them.
Someone said earlier that the problem isn't that the minimum wage was too low, but that there was a shortage of higher paying jobs. That is so true, yet this too is but a symptom of a far more complex problem.
The greater problem we have is deliberately poor education, and endless false narratives, with the most common one regarding economics being the evil nature and unsuccessful results of "trickle down economics". This is leftwing socialist nonsense that want you to believe that wealth trickling down is the root of economic evil, when their solution is poverty trickling up.
Sadly, there are probably many who have no idea or understanding of what I just said. But to specifically address your last point above, trickle down economics is the only thing that can work, so long as such currency ir liquidity reaches the general economy. Unfortunately, for the past couple of decades, too little has reached the general economy, with the vast majority being withheld and hoarded by the gangsters controlling the flow.
I'll end this little post with something for you to think about. What is a "bank"? To the average person, a bank is where they deposit or withdraw their money. OK? But in reality, a bank is exactly like a "river bank". What do river banks do? They control the flow and direction of a river ... a liquid river. Why is money sometimes referred to as liquidity? Because the money banks serve the same role as a river bank. They control the flow and direction of the "currency", just as the river bank controls the "current".
Think on this for a while. Hopefully the point will sink in ... that the world you think you live in is far different in reality, and a world you aren't at all familiar with. This world is hidden in plain view, having its own language which defines it, yet only a few even notice, let alone understand.
Funny thing is, it tells you everyday, but in a language you don't understand. The flow of currency ... injecting liquidity .. flooding the market .... creating bubbles ... recessions (,receding water,).
We're just barely scratching the surface here ... but its a starting point.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 08-15-2016 at 10:51 PM..
While you are marginally correct on the last point, you are so very wrong on the rest. That is leftwing economic theory which dismisses the ONLY one tried and true law of economics, which revolves around supply and demand. That law applies to products, services, jobs, and everything else, right down to the costs of an hour with a hooker. This law cannot be dismissed, or escaped. When demand is greater than supply, the price increases. When supply is greater than demand, prices fall. Every freaking time, no exception.
Now you can manipulate supply and demand, but you must work with it. It never, ever, goes away. Never has, never will.
yes but you can eliminate effective competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
So your claim that goods and services are already maxed out to the very limit of what the market will bear is total nonsense. It sounds very convincing, but is really pure BS. You need only look at gasoline prices to realize how faulty such an idea is. Just a couple years ago, gas was $4, but now it is $2. What happened,? Did the market change so rapidly regarding what it could bear? No. Supply and demand. (As well as artificial manipulation of supply, high and low, to affect geopolitical agendas, with the price of gasoline rising and falling as an unavoidable result).
The real economy is not reducible to a single supply and demand curve. The availability of credit, new money does change things and the lack of it does as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
As for imposing a minimum wage if any amount, the unintended consequences negate the results promised, because it is based on two foolish notions ... it insinuates the possibility that supply and demand can be bypassed without negative consequences ... while believing that simple solutions can solve extremely complex problems. Fact is, simple solutions to complex problems can only succeed in the simple minds that promote them.
Supply and demand, vs. debt to income. Increasing wages reduces debt to income. Too much debt is a drag on the economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Someone said earlier that the problem isn't that the minimum wage was too low, but that there was a shortage of higher paying jobs. That is so true, yet this too is but a symptom of a far more complex problem.
The greater problem we have is deliberately poor education, and endless false narratives, with the most common one regarding economics being the evil nature and unsuccessful results of "trickle down economics". This is leftwing socialist nonsense that want you to believe that wealth trickling down is the root of economic evil, when their solution is poverty trickling up.
This is the result of trickle down economics. Demand for investment opportunities and supply of investment opportunities. Reducing top end taxes makes buying debt on margin highly profitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Sadly, there are probably many who have no idea or understanding of what I just said. But to specifically address your last point above, trickle down economics is the only thing that can work, so long as such currency ir liquidity reaches the general economy. Unfortunately, for the past couple of decades, too little has reached the general economy, with the vast majority being withheld and hoarded by the gangsters controlling the flow.
Supply side economics won't fix a demand side problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
I'll end this little post with something for you to think about. What is a "bank"? To the average person, a bank is where they deposit or withdraw their money. OK? But in reality, a bank is exactly like a "river bank". What do river banks do? They control the flow and direction of a river ... a liquid river. Why is money sometimes referred to as liquidity? Because the money banks serve the same role as a river bank. They control the flow and direction of the "currency", just as the river bank controls the "current".
And that is the rub interest rates dropped from the yearly 1980's on, blowing a huge debt bubble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Think on this for a while. Hopefully the point will sink in ... that the world you think you live in is far different in reality, and a world you aren't at all familiar with. This world is hidden in plain view, having its own language which defines it, yet only a few even notice, let alone understand.
Funny thing is, it tells you everyday, but in a language you don't understand. The flow of currency ... injecting liquidity .. flooding the market .... creating bubbles ... recessions (,receding water,).
We're just barely scratching the surface here ... but its a starting point.
Limiting the growth of debt by having high marginal tax rates forces growth in other areas. Wages.
As I stated clearly, supply and demand can be manipulated
Monopoly is the most frequent form of manipulating supply and demand.
Quote:
Inadequate competition.
yes but you can eliminate effective competition.
Of course. In fact, that is one of the primary goals of corporations ... to defeat, or eliminate competition. The bigger the corporation, the more effective such strategies generally are. And again, the purpose of monopoly is to manipulate supply and demand by securing singular control over supply.
Quote:
The real economy is not reducible to a single supply and demand curve. The availability of credit, new money does change things and the lack of it does as well.
Wrong. It not only can be reduced to that singular curve, but it has to be, unless manipulation has been introduced to bypass it, or control it.
Well sir, we're right back to manipulation/monopoly, aren't we? Yes we are, and when it comes right down to it, currency control is the most effective form of monopoly manipulation there is. And it has been proven to be the most destructive form, for which we now suffer as a result.
The fact is, the Federal Reserve is the singularly most powerful monopoly in existence, as it has total control over the currency, with direct power to manipulate virtually every element of the general economy, through manipulating interest rates and money availability. One could argue that total monopoly of the currency makes free market economics impossible, reducing it to the mere illusion of free markets. And that is precisely what we have, and why our economy is suffering.
No, this is the result of Keynesian economics on steroids. And all of signs show what a disaster it has been in following such an economic model. 19 Trillion in debt, with interest rates at historic lows, and nowhere to go to solve it (given the two principles of keynesian economic management, which calls for increased government spending, and the lowering of interest rates.)
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Demand for investment opportunities and supply of investment opportunities. Reducing top end taxes makes buying debt on margin highly profitable.,
Increasing top level tax rates forces capital escape to foreign markets where tax burdens are less. This also compounds the problems by producing higher unemployment, lower overall tax revenues, and the resulting increase in borrowing and debt.
And what have we been witnessing over the past three decades?
The overall problem is structural/foundational. We have a private entity that controls our currency. This entity benefits greatly from the increase in borrowing and resulting debt accumulation ... meaning, what is bad for the general economy is a boon to the entity that controls it by means of its total monopoly of the currency.
The Keynesian economic model doesn't take into account the racketeering of the central bank ... it argues for it.
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Supply side economics won't fix a demand side problem.
And that is the rub interest rates dropped from the yearly 1980's on, blowing a huge debt bubble.
Limiting the growth of debt by having high marginal tax rates forces growth in other areas. Wages.
I think you are just passing along the propaganda you've accepted as true without understanding a bit of it, because you are actually arguing in circles.
As I've already explained, high tax rates inhibit economic growth and production while also increasing borrowing and debt. When you attempt to fix that by reducing interest rates, you only increase borrowing and debt.
You don't need to take my word for this, all you have to do is open your eyes ... then you can decide whether you are going to continue believing what you are told, or start believing what you see.
I think you are just passing along the propaganda you've accepted as true without understanding a bit of it, because you are actually arguing in circles.
...
I wrote what I'm saying to you I didn't read it anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
As I've already explained,
I showed Reducing taxes on the top leads to increased debt load.
Now if you look at the line coming out of WWII in the top graph you will see that it has a higher slop than the rest of it. Then look at the top marginal tax rate at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
and production while also increasing borrowing and debt. When you attempt to fix that by reducing interest rates, you only increase borrowing and debt.
With a high top marginal tax rate it makes it necessary to hide income. A lot of that hiding comes down to paying someone wages. It also disincentiveizes the owning of nontax free debt instruments. You don't get 30% annual interest rate payday loan centers with a top marginal tax rate of 90% no point. You can't keep ahead of inflation doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
You don't need to take my word for this, all you have to do is open your eyes ... then you can decide whether you are going to continue believing what you are told, or start believing what you see.
The wise man will believe what he sees.
I have opened my eyes! Have you?
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