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Old 03-10-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,489 posts, read 11,313,044 times
Reputation: 9005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
I know from personal experience, smoking helps one be prone to rational thought. It should be required in our schools. Obama, of course, is going to make that part of the Education Legislation??? Please, find something worthy of discussion.
The Obama Administration is pushing for health care reform. In order for him to make it palatable to all concerned citizens, he is using "spiralling healthcare costs" as the primary reason for a massive overhaul.
Cigarette smoking costs 157 billion dollars per year in America. Obama is a smoker.
Do you people get it now?
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Maine
898 posts, read 1,405,559 times
Reputation: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkIII View Post
Isn't Obama actually contributing to higher healthcare costs by smoking cigarettes? Not only to him...but to others with secondhand smoke?

To me, it's akin to someone addicted to alcohol heading a campaign against drunk driving. Or an overweight person leading a campaign against diabetes.

Seems like a major PR problem to me.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:22 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,225,681 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Really? Prove it.
Here is your proof. I am focusing on cycling as that is what I know best, but if you want more proof let me know, I will be more than happy to post it.

Fatality Rate Per Population

Motor Vehicle Travel
267.6 million motor vehicle riders
42,000 killed
156.8 fatalities per million
1 in 6,371 killed

Data from National Highway Traffic Safety Administration data on motor vehicle fatalities and injuries (1997)

Fatality Rate Per Population

Bicycle Travel
67 million bicycle riders
890 killed
13.3 fatalities per million
1 in 75,281 killed

Data from the 1994 report by the Consumer Products Safety Commission


Granted it is old data, but the trends are consistant.

Switching from driving to cycling is a positive thing for your health.


And the health benefits:

Health benefits
Below are summarised some of the health benefits of cycling, for the individual and society as a whole. Many of the benefits are not unique to cycling but are a consequence of moderate physical activity. In several cases, however, cycling enables that benefit to be achieved more easily, more widely or more effectively.

This should not be regarded as an authoritative treatment of the subject, relying as it does on the primary sources referenced below. Those sources provide much more detailed information and full references.

Immune system
The immune system serves to protect the body from infections and diverse systemic diseases. Studies show that moderate activity, such as cycling, strengthens the immune system and thus contributes to a healthy life. It can also increase activity against tumour cells, assisting the prevention of related illnesses.

Muscles
Humans have several hundred muscles, which have to be used regularly in order to maintain fitness and health. A week of inactivity reduces the strength of the muscular system by up to 50% and can harm them long-term. This is particularly true for older people as aging causes muscles to shrink.
During cycling, most of the body's muscles are activated. The leg muscles are responsible for the pedalling movement; the abdomen and back muscles stabilise the body on the cycle and cushion external influences; and the shoulder-arm muscular system supports the body at the handlebars. All this trains and tightens up the muscular system, making it stronger and able to function efficiently.

The skeletal system
This is the body's supporting framework, held together by muscles, tendons and ligaments. Exercise and the accompanying strain on the skeletal system strengthens it and increases mobility. Cycling has a positive effect on bone density and strength. Moreover, a muscular system strengthened by cycling supports and protects the skeletal system.

Spinal diseases and back pains
Posture when cycling is optimum, and the cyclic movement of the legs stimulates muscles in the lower back, where slipped discs are most likely to occur. In this way the spine is strengthened and secured against external stresses. In particular cycling can stimulate the small muscles of the vertebrae which are difficult to affect through other exercise. This can help reduce the likelihood of back pains and other problems.

Joint protection
Cycling is especially good at protecting and feeding cartilages as the support given by the bicycle means that the forces that act as a result of body weight are significantly reduced. The circular movement of cycling assists the transport of energy and other metabolic produces to the cartilages, reducing the likelihood of arthrosis.

Balance and equilibrium
Physical activity serves as a regulator to relieve the stress that is common in current lifestyles. It produces the balance between exertion and relaxation which is so important for the body's inner equilibrium. Cycling is especially ideal for this process, countering stress in two ways: by satisfying the need for activity where people lack movement or exercise; and by balancing out increased strain, particularly mental and emotional.

Mental stress
Cycling has a considerable relaxing effect due to its uniform, cyclic movement which stablises the physical and emotional functions of the body. This counteracts anxiety, depression and other psychological problems. The exercise also controls hormonal balance.

Oxygen and circulation
Oxygen is vital for all biological organisms and the basic prerequisite for the respiratory processes of humans. Respiration is often impaired by adiposity and lack of exercise. Among other things, regular physical activity strengthens the respiratory muscles, which leads to improved ventilation of the lungs and thus has a positive effect on oxygen exchange. Enormous positive health effects can be achieved in energy uptake and processing, through moderate cycling.

Heart and cardiovascular diseases
The heart is one of the most important organisms for a healthy life but can be damaged by inactivity. Cycling is ideal for training the heart to be stronger which results in less stress of the heart. All the risk factors that lead to a heart attack are reduced and regular cycling reduces the likelihood of heart attack by more than 50%.

Body weight, adiposity and obesity
Cycling is ideal for targeting these problems as 70% of the body's weight is borne by the saddle, thus enabling people who could not otherwise move easily to exercise to increase their physical fitness and stimulate fat metabolism. Cycling also contributes to weight reduction by burning energy.

Body fat and hypercholesterol
Cycling can train the organism to use up fat reserves and also changes the cholesterol balance, favouring the protective kind over that which is threatening to health. As body weight reduces and cholesterol is optimised, a protective mechanism is enabled by continuing to cycle. Regular exercise during youth is a prevention factor against excessive body weight in adults.

Blood pressure
Moderate cycling can prevent, or at least reduce, high blood pressure and so help to avoid stroke or damage to the organs. Blood pressure is also reduced by a lower heart rate, which is a result of regular cycling.

Cancers
Regular physical activity has been shown to reduce the risk of colon, breast, prostate and pancreatic cancers, and possibly lung and endometrial cancers too.

Stamina
Cycling is especially good for aerobic exercise as the strain on the body is less than in other endurance sports. Improved stamina reduces tiredness and fatigue and promotes a sense of well-being..

Beauty and attractiveness
Beauty and attractiveness are much linked to body shape and condition. Cycling can positively influence these by controlling body weight and muscular form. Skin also benefits from the metabolic processes that are stimulated. In addition, cycling affects physical feeling which influences the perception of others.

Physical workout
In addition to regular moderate exercise, the body benefits from more demanding activity from time to time, which improves fitness and provides greater diversion from everyday problems. Cycling can provide more intensive activity as easily as by pedalling faster or harder.

Quality of life
Physical activity has a direct effect on well-being and health. Cycling has numerous advantages that can directly affect quality of life, as it provides benefits both physically and emotionally. Regular exercise, taken as an integral part of daily life, is needed to permanently enhance the quality of life.

Secondary benefits
More cycling, especially as an alternative to motor vehicle travel, would bring substantial health benefits for society as a whole due to improved air quality, reduced noise and danger, and greater independence for children.


Principal references
[1] Froböse I. Cycling and Health Compendium. Zentrum für Gesundheit der Deutschen Sporthochschule, Köln. 2004.
[2] Cavill N, Davis A. Cycling and Health: what's the evidence . Cycling England, 2007
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,561,947 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Here is your proof. I am focusing on cycling as that is what I know best, but if you want more proof let me know, I will be more than happy to post it.

Fatality Rate Per Population

Motor Vehicle Travel
267.6 million motor vehicle riders
42,000 killed
156.8 fatalities per million
1 in 6,371 killed

Data from National Highway Traffic Safety Administration data on motor vehicle fatalities and injuries (1997)

Fatality Rate Per Population

Bicycle Travel
67 million bicycle riders
890 killed
13.3 fatalities per million
1 in 75,281 killed

Data from the 1994 report by the Consumer Products Safety Commission


Granted it is old data, but the trends are consistant.

Switching from driving to cycling is a positive thing for your health.


And the health benefits:

Health benefits
Below are summarised some of the health benefits of cycling, for the individual and society as a whole. Many of the benefits are not unique to cycling but are a consequence of moderate physical activity. In several cases, however, cycling enables that benefit to be achieved more easily, more widely or more effectively.

This should not be regarded as an authoritative treatment of the subject, relying as it does on the primary sources referenced below. Those sources provide much more detailed information and full references.

Immune system
The immune system serves to protect the body from infections and diverse systemic diseases. Studies show that moderate activity, such as cycling, strengthens the immune system and thus contributes to a healthy life. It can also increase activity against tumour cells, assisting the prevention of related illnesses.

Muscles
Humans have several hundred muscles, which have to be used regularly in order to maintain fitness and health. A week of inactivity reduces the strength of the muscular system by up to 50% and can harm them long-term. This is particularly true for older people as aging causes muscles to shrink.
During cycling, most of the body's muscles are activated. The leg muscles are responsible for the pedalling movement; the abdomen and back muscles stabilise the body on the cycle and cushion external influences; and the shoulder-arm muscular system supports the body at the handlebars. All this trains and tightens up the muscular system, making it stronger and able to function efficiently.

The skeletal system
This is the body's supporting framework, held together by muscles, tendons and ligaments. Exercise and the accompanying strain on the skeletal system strengthens it and increases mobility. Cycling has a positive effect on bone density and strength. Moreover, a muscular system strengthened by cycling supports and protects the skeletal system.

Spinal diseases and back pains
Posture when cycling is optimum, and the cyclic movement of the legs stimulates muscles in the lower back, where slipped discs are most likely to occur. In this way the spine is strengthened and secured against external stresses. In particular cycling can stimulate the small muscles of the vertebrae which are difficult to affect through other exercise. This can help reduce the likelihood of back pains and other problems.

Joint protection
Cycling is especially good at protecting and feeding cartilages as the support given by the bicycle means that the forces that act as a result of body weight are significantly reduced. The circular movement of cycling assists the transport of energy and other metabolic produces to the cartilages, reducing the likelihood of arthrosis.

Balance and equilibrium
Physical activity serves as a regulator to relieve the stress that is common in current lifestyles. It produces the balance between exertion and relaxation which is so important for the body's inner equilibrium. Cycling is especially ideal for this process, countering stress in two ways: by satisfying the need for activity where people lack movement or exercise; and by balancing out increased strain, particularly mental and emotional.

Mental stress
Cycling has a considerable relaxing effect due to its uniform, cyclic movement which stablises the physical and emotional functions of the body. This counteracts anxiety, depression and other psychological problems. The exercise also controls hormonal balance.

Oxygen and circulation
Oxygen is vital for all biological organisms and the basic prerequisite for the respiratory processes of humans. Respiration is often impaired by adiposity and lack of exercise. Among other things, regular physical activity strengthens the respiratory muscles, which leads to improved ventilation of the lungs and thus has a positive effect on oxygen exchange. Enormous positive health effects can be achieved in energy uptake and processing, through moderate cycling.

Heart and cardiovascular diseases
The heart is one of the most important organisms for a healthy life but can be damaged by inactivity. Cycling is ideal for training the heart to be stronger which results in less stress of the heart. All the risk factors that lead to a heart attack are reduced and regular cycling reduces the likelihood of heart attack by more than 50%.

Body weight, adiposity and obesity
Cycling is ideal for targeting these problems as 70% of the body's weight is borne by the saddle, thus enabling people who could not otherwise move easily to exercise to increase their physical fitness and stimulate fat metabolism. Cycling also contributes to weight reduction by burning energy.

Body fat and hypercholesterol
Cycling can train the organism to use up fat reserves and also changes the cholesterol balance, favouring the protective kind over that which is threatening to health. As body weight reduces and cholesterol is optimised, a protective mechanism is enabled by continuing to cycle. Regular exercise during youth is a prevention factor against excessive body weight in adults.

Blood pressure
Moderate cycling can prevent, or at least reduce, high blood pressure and so help to avoid stroke or damage to the organs. Blood pressure is also reduced by a lower heart rate, which is a result of regular cycling.

Cancers
Regular physical activity has been shown to reduce the risk of colon, breast, prostate and pancreatic cancers, and possibly lung and endometrial cancers too.

Stamina
Cycling is especially good for aerobic exercise as the strain on the body is less than in other endurance sports. Improved stamina reduces tiredness and fatigue and promotes a sense of well-being..

Beauty and attractiveness
Beauty and attractiveness are much linked to body shape and condition. Cycling can positively influence these by controlling body weight and muscular form. Skin also benefits from the metabolic processes that are stimulated. In addition, cycling affects physical feeling which influences the perception of others.

Physical workout
In addition to regular moderate exercise, the body benefits from more demanding activity from time to time, which improves fitness and provides greater diversion from everyday problems. Cycling can provide more intensive activity as easily as by pedalling faster or harder.

Quality of life
Physical activity has a direct effect on well-being and health. Cycling has numerous advantages that can directly affect quality of life, as it provides benefits both physically and emotionally. Regular exercise, taken as an integral part of daily life, is needed to permanently enhance the quality of life.

Secondary benefits
More cycling, especially as an alternative to motor vehicle travel, would bring substantial health benefits for society as a whole due to improved air quality, reduced noise and danger, and greater independence for children.


Principal references
[1] Froböse I. Cycling and Health Compendium. Zentrum für Gesundheit der Deutschen Sporthochschule, Köln. 2004.
[2] Cavill N, Davis A. Cycling and Health: what's the evidence . Cycling England, 2007

Certainly there are measurable benefits from exercising. Who would deny that? However, making the case that bicycle riding, or any other physical regimine, actually prolongs life and prevents health care costs is another matter. You can show me the odds, but you can't prove it.

Why? Because unless you know when a person was supposed to die in the first place, you can't tell if he lived longer, can you? And, no matter if we exercise or not, we'll STILL die from something and, unless we get lucky enough to drop dead, it'll cost a lot of money.

Even so, your data shows 1 in 75,000 fatalities and that's still going to cost the rest of us money, not to mention the number of emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents involving bicycles.

From the CDC:

Each year, more than 500,000 people in the US are treated in emergency departments, and more than 700 people die as a result of bicycle-related injuries.

I think that's more than enough to warrant raising the health insurance premiums on bicycle riders, don't you?
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:55 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,225,681 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Certainly there are measurable benefits from exercising. Who would deny that? However, making the case that bicycle riding, or any other physical regimine, actually prolongs life and prevents health care costs is another matter. You can show me the odds, but you can't prove it.

Why? Because unless you know when a person was supposed to die in the first place, you can't tell if he lived longer, can you? And, no matter if we exercise or not, we'll STILL die from something and, unless we get lucky enough to drop dead, it'll cost a lot of money.

Even so, your data shows 1 in 75,000 fatalities and that's still going to cost the rest of us money, not to mention the number of emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents involving bicycles.

From the CDC:

Each year, more than 500,000 people in the US are treated in emergency departments, and more than 700 people die as a result of bicycle-related injuries.

I think that's more than enough to warrant raising the health insurance premiums on bicycle riders, don't you?
1 in 75,000 as opposed to 1 in 6,371 if they were driving. If we are raising health care premiums on cyclists, then we logically should raise health care premiums on drivers by over 11 times as much since that is how much more likely a driver is to be killed as a cyclist.

I currently ride a bike to work. Wouldn't you rather there is a 1 in 75,000 chance that I die on my commute rather than a 1 in 6,371 chance?

If I show you the odds and you choose to turn a blind eye to the hard data, then I am not sure where this debate will go.

Every cyclist that is on the road is one less driver or jogger on the road, both of which are more dangerous than cycling.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:57 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 43,000,905 times
Reputation: 12829
Yes, it further supports that progressives are "do as I say not as I do" hypocrits. Keep smoking, keep drinking Obama. I'll even buy a carton for him.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:21 PM
 
53 posts, read 70,776 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
If a president's activities had any influence on citizens, we'd all be saying nu-ku-ler by now, so no, Obama's smoking is irrelevant to passing health care reform.
Oh. Right. I guess that's why O's wife is Czarina of Healthy Eating even though she's carrying quite a bit of junk in that trunk. Thanks for clearing this all up.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Inland Empire, Calif
2,884 posts, read 5,649,358 times
Reputation: 2803
Let the commie smoke away all he wants. Smoking shortens ones life.. Lets all send him a pack...!
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:54 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Texas, Finally!
5,479 posts, read 12,265,012 times
Reputation: 2859
Dictators are always hypocrites. Don't be surprised.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,561,947 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
1 in 75,000 as opposed to 1 in 6,371 if they were driving. If we are raising health care premiums on cyclists, then we logically should raise health care premiums on drivers by over 11 times as much since that is how much more likely a driver is to be killed as a cyclist.
The issue isn't being killed. The issue is risk and, while bike riders may have a lesser chance of being killed, they still generate costs associated with health care from accidents.

Quote:
I currently ride a bike to work. Wouldn't you rather there is a 1 in 75,000 chance that I die on my commute rather than a 1 in 6,371 chance?
I don't care if you die. I care how much your health care will cost me.

Quote:
Every cyclist that is on the road is one less driver or jogger on the road, both of which are more dangerous than cycling.
Yes, but does that mean bike riders shouldn't pay their share of the health care costs, just like smokers and soda drinkers, even if that share is prorated?
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