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Old 05-14-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,227,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Africans and Arab Africans had a well established slave trade going well before the US became a nation.
Exactly - there was an industry already well established before the colonists even set foot at Plymouth.

No need to build a new freeway, just use the one in front of you.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,545 posts, read 19,411,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post
Okay, a real answer would be:

1. Native Americans were not used to the disease that Europeans brought over. So when they tried to enslave them, many died.

2. When Native Americans were enslaved, they were not always the best farmers. Africans knew how to farm and were used to it so they were chosen.

This is a very basic explanation and to get a true feel one needs to go much deeper into the question and explain things that you didn't ask.
#1 is true to a certain extent, but by the 1800s most natives had built up some sort of immunity to common strains of most diseases.

As to #2, the natives here, at least in the Southeast, had limited their hunting and gathering and become somewhat agrarian as early as the 1400s, as evidenced by the pottery that they left behind. Societies do not develop ceramic traditions easily when they are nomadic due to the fragility of simple fired clay pots.

They would have been fairly accomplished farmers, but the crops that were being grown for sale (cotton, tobacco, indigo, rice) were very different from the corn, peaches, pawpaws, nuts, and berries that made up a large part of their diet.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:08 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,418 posts, read 9,224,110 times
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They DID enslave the Native Americans..

They just went about it a different way.

Here in New Mexico, we are taught, naturally, about all the Native American tribes, Wild West history, etc, but also the history of Spanish conquest in the region. The Spanish took a different approach- you WILL convert to our religion or you will DIE and go to hell. The Spanish conquered the Native Americans here many times, and often in quite brutal fashion- crippling the men so they couldn't fight, loading NAILS into the cannon before firing into a mass of angry natives, etc.

The Native Americans here were ultimately subjugated under the guise of religion- to this day, the remaining members of the original tribes speak a LOT of Spanish, and Catholicism.


There, happy?
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,227,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanJP View Post
you will DIE and go to hell...Catholicism.


Resume.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,845 posts, read 20,783,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
There was a huge population of people already in place in North America who were technologically inferior.

But the slave traders went all the way to Africa to import slaves.

This doesn't make any sense.

Why did they do this?
One of the main reasons slaves were imported was they had no allegiance to the new land, unlike the Native Americans. And, some Native Americans were enslaved. Some were sent to Europe, some to plantations in the West Indies:

"After 'King Philip's War' (1675-76) in New England, many Pequot Indians would be enslaved and sent to the West Indies, and even a few were sold initially into slavery in North Africa..."

HSP's Hidden Histories: Shackshoone: a Mysterious Native-American in 17th-century England
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,545 posts, read 19,411,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
One of the main reasons slaves were imported was they had no allegiance to the new land, unlike the Native Americans. And, some Native Americans were enslaved. Some were sent to Europe, some to plantations in the West Indies:

"After 'King Philip's War' (1675-76) in New England, many Pequot Indians would be enslaved and sent to the West Indies, and even a few were sold initially into slavery in North Africa..."

HSP's Hidden Histories: Shackshoone: a Mysterious Native-American in 17th-century England
Thanks. That's interesting. I didn't know that.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,027 posts, read 7,309,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
#1 is true to a certain extent, but by the 1800s most natives had built up some sort of immunity to common strains of most diseases.

As to #2, the natives here, at least in the Southeast, had limited their hunting and gathering and become somewhat agrarian as early as the 1400s, as evidenced by the pottery that they left behind. Societies do not develop ceramic traditions easily when they are nomadic due to the fragility of simple fired clay pots.

They would have been fairly accomplished farmers, but the crops that were being grown for sale (cotton, tobacco, indigo, rice) were very different from the corn, peaches, pawpaws, nuts, and berries that made up a large part of their diet.
By the 1800s the Atlantic Slave Trade had already been in effect for some time and most slaves in America then, were born here.

And their agricultural practices weren't up to par when compared to Europeans. Most tribes weren't considered "civilized" (those who didn't already use agriculture).

Last edited by thePR; 05-14-2010 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,545 posts, read 19,411,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post
By the 1800s the Atlantic Slave Trade had already been in effect for some time and most slaves in America then, were born here.
IIRC the ocerseas slave trade was suspended around 1820-1830 because it was noted that there were two to three slaves in America for every white person which was a very uncomfortable majority for the wrong side, and uprisings were feared.

The major damage done by syphillis and smallpox was done long before that. DeSoto came in through Florida in 1540 and began a parade of explorers who spread disease to nearly every village they visited.

There was also some intermarriage between the natives and criminals who escaped perseution in the coastal communities by following the rivers inland. Moving in with a tribe and taking a native wife was much preferable to swinging on a gibbet to many of them.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,813 posts, read 24,465,404 times
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A couple of things.

Africans enslaved Africans. Its not like Europeans went over there and raided villages, and took people. Well, that did happen, just very rarely. Most of the time, it was a warring tribe who wanted to get rid of the warriors from their opposition, and sold them as slaves to the Europeans.

The slave trade started because of sugar cane plantations in the Caribbean. African slaves weren't profitable in the states, because they died due to the weather and diseases here.

Tobacco changed all of that.

The slave trade remained quite small, so there was no reason to enslave Native Americans, because there was no need for them. By that time, a trade system had been established with Africa, and it was just simpler to use African slaves.

By the time the cotton gin came about, and slavery really took off on the continent, the Native Americans were already moved out of the east.

Also, Native Americans were seen as lazy, and were thought to make poor slaves.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,545 posts, read 19,411,329 times
Reputation: 15034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
A couple of things.

Africans enslaved Africans. Its not like Europeans went over there and raided villages, and took people. Well, that did happen, just very rarely. Most of the time, it was a warring tribe who wanted to get rid of the warriors from their opposition, and sold them as slaves to the Europeans.

The slave trade started because of sugar cane plantations in the Caribbean. African slaves weren't profitable in the states, because they died due to the weather and diseases here.

Tobacco changed all of that.

The slave trade remained quite small, so there was no reason to enslave Native Americans, because there was no need for them. By that time, a trade system had been established with Africa, and it was just simpler to use African slaves.

By the time the cotton gin came about, and slavery really took off on the continent, the Native Americans were already moved out of the east.

Also, Native Americans were seen as lazy, and were thought to make poor slaves.
As an interesting side note, if the enslaved tribesmen purchased from the victorious chiefs were not sufficient to fill out the ship's manfifest, the chiefs and whoever was with them were also nabbed and loaded for sale in the New Land.

The Portuguese were especially bad about such treachery to their benefactors.
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