PDX's Liberal Tyranny (Portland: best city, taxes, legally)

[RxMarcus]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Also with regards to stereotypes, I think it is a human weakness that both conservatives and liberals will use. It is always easier to use hasty generalizations than to try and understand complex issues and evaluate them from both sides. Sure there may be some shreds of truth in the stereotypes. But we must be careful not to categorize 'all' conservatives, gays, illegal aliens, rednecks or whoever into one easy generalization.

Hey I am guilty of this even without trying. For example since moving to Colorado I have noticed a lot of males driving big macho monster truck type vehicles. 'Are they over compensating for something' I sometimes wonder? What is the point of all these 'Big' trucks. Then a buddy and I got stuck in the snow in his small SUV and guesss who stopped to help pull us out. Yeah, thats right, a guy in a big Macho truck.

So I guess I am learning to try and suspend my judgment of 'another one of those.' If that makes sense.

But its still fun to crack jokes every once in a while, lol.

[nedroj]

5chevin5
I worked in a conversation school in Hakodate, Southern part of the northern island of Hokkaido. Typically I would be chatting with three or four people for about 50 minutes at a time. Often, all of them would be housewives, and so I would poke fun at them mercilessly. Occasionally they would defend themselves, and sometimes the defense would make sense. While I see what you are saying and agree with you to a point, my location and my students gave me a different perspective, one that I think better encompasses Japan as a whole.

Suncat
"they don't see the irony in that"
This so true. If they just had an inch more self awareness then it could be bearable, like any radical with a good sense of humor. I learned a long time ago that if I include a bit of humility I can get away with a bit more outrageous behavior/views.

RxMarcus
I have to say about Portland that I like the strength of the gay perspective here. It is strong and diverse. I think that if Portland were like most other cities of its size with regard to this perspective it would be... lessened, boring or at least slightly dilapidated. And most importantly the gays I know don't mind bantering. Though the straights make up for this by being overly sensitive on your behalf.

All right the reaction hasn't been too bad so far, so I'll give an example.

I was at a mild house party a few years ago. The only non whites there were my wife to be and one other Asian chick (ahem, I mean woman). I was having a conversation with some other whites in which I used the term Oriental to describe people from China, Japan, and Korea. I was suddenly rudely informed by the white wife of the host that Oriental was an ethic slur. This was the first I'd heard of this since I hadn't yet got the memo that Asian is the only acceptable way to refer to people from Asia. At the time I felt Asian was too broad, I wanted to talk just about Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese since they shared a lot of culture, looked so much alike and were right next to each other. I wasn't talking about Indians, Mongols or Russians. I finally got by using East Asians instead of Orientals, but I miss the word. But the point is that the white wife went ballistic on me, and was supported by nearly everyone. The only ones who didn't care and said so explicitly were the two Asians in the room, the two East Asians formerly known as Orientals.

I'm sure this sort of stuff happens elsewhere, but in my experience the righteous fury of indignation has a special home in Portland.

[jojo4]

I don't really care either especially if I won't ever see you again.
However, if I know you and keep hearing the term coming out of the old pie hole, I would speak up and suggest Asian instead.

BTW, all you whiteys look the same to us too. Chaney, Rush, Rove, can't tell em apart.
oops, probably get ban now, oh well... :shrug:

how about more examples?

[kelcat]

Originally Posted by nedroj

The only ones who didn't care and said so explicitly were the two Asians in the room, the two East Asians formerly known as Orientals.

I'm sure this sort of stuff happens elsewhere, but in my experience the righteous fury of indignation has a special home in Portland.

Well as an American of Japanese decent I do kind of feel that the term "oriental" is somewhat demeaning only because of the history of the word, if you have read anything about the history of "orientals" in the American west you might have a better idea of what that word can conjure in someone who IS aware of how that word was used (were those "orientals" in the room Asian-Americans or native Asians?). I don't think I would be as indignant as an African-American guy being called "nig--r" but it does rub the wrong way in the same way because it conjures up the subservience of a nonwhite populace to whites. The definition and place a word has in history is determined by usage and social agreement. If you don't care to be sensitive to how others feel about a word ("sticks and stones..." notwithstanding) that IS your right but be aware that others might be.

And that righteous fury of indignation exists anywhere there are people who are aware of other peoples feelings and doesn't have a special home anywhere except in people's hearts. I'm not from Portland by the way but moving there soon so I'll probably fit right in, right?


EDIT:
Interesting you can't even write "nig-er" outright, there's some kind of automatic thing that turns it into all ****** I wonder how many other words there are like that. This is something that I cannot agree with... (unless of course they gave the same treatment to "oriental" (I'm kidding if anyone missed the wink )

[kelcat]

Addressing the OP I do agree though that "liberal" ideology can be used as a bludgeon in the same way that "fundamentalist" religious ideology can be. I think the problem is when ideology (ANY KIND) takes precedent over common sense and individual respect.

[Pen Cap Chew]

I've been corrected too when I used "Oriental" to describe a person and I didn't see at the time how this was an ethnic slur or so offensive that it was worth correcting but there are a lot of old associations with the word that I was unaware of. However, I can get away with saying "these Oriental noodles are yummy" and it's fine. BTW, anyone here can call me a "honky white boy" and I'm down with it, yo.

I could care less that someone is black, but I am annoyed that people expect me to feel awkward because I am white. But thank you at least for not calling me racist, though you were probably thinking it.

I didn't think you were racist. You're having friendly chitchats with them so it doesn't appear that you are avoiding people because of race or have any kind of hatrid towards them. I didn't feel that about you.

[kelcat]

a clarification regarding the monikers...

Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis (those of the subcontinent) are typically refered to as South Asian.

Russians etal are simply Russians.

Asian typically refer to those of us that have that "slanty eye" look and definitely include Mongols (who are occasionally called Central Asian) but Southeast Asian refers generally to the "slanty eye" people (some with darker skin) from Vietnam, Laos, Thailand etc.

you forgot the Arabs, Turks, Israelis, Persians (Iranians), but they have their own names and cultures and aren't lumped together by white people as the same.

There WILL be a test so study up folks!

[kelcat]

Originally Posted by Pen Cap Chew

I've been corrected too when I used "Oriental" to describe a person and I didn't see at the time how this was an ethnic slur or so offensive that it was worth correcting but there are a lot of old associations with the word that I was unaware of. However, I can get away with saying "these Oriental noodles are yummy" and it's fine. BTW, anyone here can call me a "honky white boy" and I'm down with it, yo.



I didn't think you were racist. You're having friendly chitchats with them so it doesn't appear that you are avoiding people because of race or have any kind of hatrid towards them. I didn't feel that about you.

Conflating noodles and people? There IS a big difference between being "racist" and clueless

[jojo4]

Thank you!
That was very eloquent.

Originally Posted by kelcat

Well as an American of Japanese decent I do kind of feel that the term "oriental" is somewhat demeaning only because of the history of the word, if you have read anything about the history of "orientals" in the American west you might have a better idea of what that word can conjure in someone who IS aware of how that word was used (were those "orientals" in the room Asian-Americans or native Asians?). I don't think I would be as indignant as an African-American guy being called "nig--r" but it does rub the wrong way in the same way because it conjures up the subservience of a nonwhite populace to whites. The definition and place a word has in history is determined by usage and social agreement. If you don't care to be sensitive to how others feel about a word ("sticks and stones..." notwithstanding) that IS your right but be aware that others might be.

[nancy thereader]

But, otoh, I do not think that people who use the term "oriental" mean to be offensive. Probably a lot of older people have no idea that it is no longer (if it ever was ) the correct PC word.