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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
No. A transsexual is one whose brain is entirely one gender, and body is the opposite. Transsexuality deals with gender identity, how one views themselves as either male or female. Gay men are still men and still identify as men. But certain key structures are feminized to be like that of the opposite sex, thus leading to attractions/emotions etc. to mimic those of straight women. Gay men still view themselves as men. They aren't women trapped in a man's body.
Maybe they're incomplete or semi-transexuals, still male enough not to fully identify as female, but to have female attraction patterns.
Oh ya and as far as the whole 'ick its a penis/vagin' I think that's an individuals insecurities showing.
I belive I could remember the exact moment I 'grew up'. I belive I was around 16 and (long story short) I get a look at my cousins vagin she then just sits their for a second and says "Well if he hasnt seen one by now then iunno what to tell em" Funny she was right--I had lost my virginity by 14 and after hearing that sentence I guess you can say the thrill was gone lol.
The "Ick," factor may or may not be artificial, but either way, it gives heterosexuals more power in society by making it more understandable for strait men to get ticked off by gay advances. If homosexuals and bisexuals want to change that (which could be to their benefit) that's their problem. Haha.
Sexual orientation (whom one is attracted to), sexual behavior (what we choose to do sexually, and with whom) and sexual identity (the labels we assign to ourselves) are three completely different things. We are lucky if they can be congruent, but for many, the people we feel that gut-level, butterflies-in-stomach-sweaty-pits feeling (which we have no choice over) for are not always the people with whom we have sex or choose relationships (which is our choice). I can label myself straight and still feel intensely attracted to people of the same gender. I can have sex with people to whom I'm not attracted because of peer pressure or societal expectations. Orientation is not a choice, but behavior and identity labels are.
...Why would there be such an opposition to homosexuality throughout society if most men are aroused by anyone? I've heard many heterosexual men say they'd be disgusted by having an intimate physical relationship with other males.
Actually societies tend to be opposed to things which people are driven towards!
For example there is a small native tribe which has almost daily inquisitions of people who have been accused of committing incest. People are frequently accused of doing this. That is because the people in the tribe are driven toward incest. So I think it is a "counter-balance" of a society to be strongly in opposition to things which they are driven towards. Things which might not be in the best long term interests of that society.
Now in the US it is not incest, but maybe something like drugs. People in the US are driven to use drugs. Society reacts by being in violent opposition to that. Cops are on the lookout daily for people who are using or selling drugs. (Similar to the "incest police" above.)
Many men in the US are on a constant lookout for gay men. If one man meets another, there is an immediate "sexual orientation test". "Do you have a girlfriend?" "Look at that hot chick!" (Then look at the other man's reaction.) And something interesting is this "testing" occurs most frequently with younger men who are at their sexual peaks. Not so much with older men who have lower sexual drives. Also younger men go around accusing other men of being "****", whereas older men do not. That is quite interesting!
So far as men having sex with other men, they can do this and satisfy their needs. Men could only have sex with other men for their entire lives and never have sex with a woman. BUT that would wreak havoc with the survival of our species! No kids would be born and humans would cease to exist. So there needs to be some mechanism to discourage men from doing this. And that mechanism could very well be genetic -> as those who sometimes or always fool around with women reproduce.
Perhaps why many gay men have had relationships with women at one time or another?
The "Ick," factor may or may not be artificial, but either way, it gives heterosexuals more power in society by making it more understandable for strait men to get ticked off by gay advances. If homosexuals and bisexuals want to change that (which could be to their benefit) that's their problem. Haha.
This was probably a mistake to say. We all could benefit from watching each others' backs to some extent....The "ick" factor is probably, at root, responsible for much hostility. It's not something to treat like it's not there, when it might be (though not necessarily even for most people) but it's not something to feed so that it grows either.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
Nope, because gender identity and sexual orientation are entirely unrelated. A transsexual can be straight, gay, or bisexual.
It sure doesn't seem like they're 'completely unrelated.' I get it, I'm not dumb, I know most gay men don't want to be women, but there's definitely a fairly large cohort of gay men who seem to overlap with the trans community.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J
Actually societies tend to be opposed to things which people are driven towards!
For example there is a small native tribe which has almost daily inquisitions of people who have been accused of committing incest. People are frequently accused of doing this. That is because the people in the tribe are driven toward incest. So I think it is a "counter-balance" of a society to be strongly in opposition to things which they are driven towards. Things which might not be in the best long term interests of that society.
Now in the US it is not incest, but maybe something like drugs. People in the US are driven to use drugs. Society reacts by being in violent opposition to that. Cops are on the lookout daily for people who are using or selling drugs. (Similar to the "incest police" above.)
Many men in the US are on a constant lookout for gay men. If one man meets another, there is an immediate "sexual orientation test". "Do you have a girlfriend?" "Look at that hot chick!" (Then look at the other man's reaction.) And something interesting is this "testing" occurs most frequently with younger men who are at their sexual peaks. Not so much with older men who have lower sexual drives. Also younger men go around accusing other men of being "****", whereas older men do not. That is quite interesting!
So far as men having sex with other men, they can do this and satisfy their needs. Men could only have sex with other men for their entire lives and never have sex with a woman. BUT that would wreak havoc with the survival of our species! No kids would be born and humans would cease to exist. So there needs to be some mechanism to discourage men from doing this. And that mechanism could very well be genetic -> as those who sometimes or always fool around with women reproduce.
Perhaps why many gay men have had relationships with women at one time or another?
In many species this is no problem. The dominant 'alpha' males tend to hog all the females to pass on the 'best' genes, while some many males don't even get to mate at all. Some of these males will turn to other males in order to get the sexual release they need. It doesn't necessarily make them gay, they probably would prefer the female if they could get her, but it's better than nothing for them, they have no socially-conditioned 'ick' factor towards it.
I'm not saying humans necessarily function this way, although strict monogamy is probably not our 'natural' state (natural isn't always ideal in our society), but even if theoretically 90% of the men out there were gay it would be no threat to human reproduction. Indeed, on the other hand, if 90% of women were strict lesbians who didn't allow any male to impregnate them, THEN we'd have problems.
It sure doesn't seem like they're 'completely unrelated.' I get it, I'm not dumb, I know most gay men don't want to be women, but there's definitely a fairly large cohort of gay men who seem to overlap with the trans community.
Do they? I'm not sure what that's based on. While Transgendered people are lumped into the LGBT category, I don't know any gay people who are like transsexuals. Unless you're referring to the association with gays and drag queens. But that may be more of a cultural thing and certain gay subsets emulating icons (drags dressing up as Liza Minelli for example).
It's not characteristic of most gays, however.
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