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Some (you) might view me as complacent but another way of looking at the opposite is in terms of "over achievers", "compulsive activity", "manic-y", "change for the sake of change", etc.
Some people do stuff just to do stuff and yes, that can hurt them. I guess not in your case, but...what if you'd changed jobs every year? Yes, that would be too much. Have all your job changes also required moves? That might be a negative too, indicating a complete lack of attachment to your surroundings.
I don't see how changing cars enters into it - that is more a "I have to have bright and shiny things" which doesn't help you at all and only puts you in debt - so to get new cars too often is a compulsive thing that only can hurt you.
I'd have to hear more about your "achievements" because you don't mention any specifics around education or training you've gotten or any projects you've completed so I'm not entirely convinced of how you seem to be defining yourself.
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Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot
This is being kind of presumptuous and judgmental without knowing all the facts.
For instance, switching jobs. I don't generally switch jobs every year. As I mentioned in the OP, I've averaged 2-3 years at each job. But why is this a bad thing? I've seen my income increase by 195% in a decade. Have they required moves? No, not really. I live in a major US city with ample job opportunities. It literally costs me nothing to switch a job locally other than maybe a little more gas. The last job change actually cut my commute in half.
And why is the assumption that I'm in debt over leasing a new vehicle every three years? It keeps my monthly payments low on a depreciating asset that ends up costing money in maintenance and repairs after the warranty period. I put more than enough away in a 401k account, ETFs, savings, and IRA to enjoy some luxuries on top of it.
I didn't outline every single thing I've accomplished in my life, because honestly, who's gonna read a post like that? If you want details, I'd be happy to share specifics to your questions.
Why are you so upset? I said in my response that you were NOT switching jobs every year so that was NOT as negative as that - but raised the question of whether you were also moving - and you answered to the negative, so fine.
And I said that buying cars frequently was irrelevant to being complacent - and it was only bad IF you went into debt...you aren't...again, fine.
So - YOU are being mighty defensive - what's going on here? Do you want a discussion that goes beyond your very specific situation to include others...or is this supposed to be an analyst's couch for you - I'm confused.
Why are you so upset? I said in my response that you were NOT switching jobs every year so that was NOT as negative as that - but raised the question of whether you were also moving - and you answered to the negative, so fine.
And I said that buying cars frequently was irrelevant to being complacent - and it was only bad IF you went into debt...you aren't...again, fine.
So - YOU are being mighty defensive - what's going on here? Do you want a discussion that goes beyond your very specific situation to include others...or is this supposed to be an analyst's couch for you - I'm confused.
Sorry. To clarify, I meant that if someone is making those assumptions, I consider that to be presumptuous and judgy without knowing the facts. From there, I was elaborating on how those assumptions, at least in my case, have not been true.
I grew up in a poor family, where it was common for cousins and other family members to not be very stable, jump from low paying job to low paying job, have tons of kids with different partners, etc. So I've witnessed that brand of instability first hand. But I think that is a stereotype that gets placed on people, no matter their circumstances. My job progression has all been upwards. I have a college degree from one of the top public Unis in the country. I have a sizable nest egg. I'm saving abundantly for retirement. I own a home. I'm married. I'm not in a lot of debt other than the usual things (mortgage, some student loans).
My point in all that is you can be "aggressive", "sporadic", "unstable", etc., without all the negative connotation that is often associated with certain types of people, usually low income and without much in the way of goals or achievement. My "instability" has been the driving force behind my goals and purpose: to earn more, to pay down debt, to own a home, to get married, to live comfortably. And I've achieved these things as a result, so I don't understand why some people sneer or mock me for that.
Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 01-02-2019 at 05:41 PM..
Nothing is waste of time if you use the experience wisely; Patience is also a form of action - Auguste Rodin
The purpose of my work was never to destroy but always to create, to construct bridges, because we must live in the hope that humankind will draw together and that the better we understand each other the easier this will become. - Alphonse Mucha
Sounds like you are doing your best and appreciate your achievements
Well, our personalities come in all sorts of flavours and varieties. Some people need to always be doing something new, or changing things frequently or they get bored quickly. That's fine. Other people tend to enjoy being in the moment more, and are comfortable just "being". Perhaps they don't place as much emphasis on things like accumulating wealth or material assets. Either way, neither is wrong and hating the things that makes us different isn't the best way of looking at things.
Well, our personalities come in all sorts of flavours and varieties. Some people need to always be doing something new, or changing things frequently or they get bored quickly. That's fine. Other people tend to enjoy being in the moment more, and are comfortable just "being". Perhaps they don't place as much emphasis on things like accumulating wealth or material assets. Either way, neither is wrong and hating the things that makes us different isn't the best way of looking at things.
Agreed. And that's all this is really about. It's about coming to terms with the idea that one person's way of doing things isn't inherently wrong because it's not the way you would do things. And it's also about not judging people for doing things differently than you would. Especially when their way has resulted in many positive outcomes for themselves.
Agreed. And that's all this is really about. It's about coming to terms with the idea that one person's way of doing things isn't inherently wrong because it's not the way you would do things. And it's also about not judging people for doing things differently than you would. Especially when their way has resulted in many positive outcomes for themselves.
Even what some consider successful or positive is subjective but yes in the end if those choices result in someone living a life they want
Even what some consider successful or positive is subjective but yes in the end if those choices result in someone living a life they want
Right. And that'd make a lot of sense if I'm living in squalor, constantly mooching and begging people for things because of my "bad choices". However, I'm a self-reliant adult who's made a comfortable life for himself and his family after essentially growing up in working class poverty. It's as if even when you're doing well, you're not doing well the right way.
I think the bottom line is that some people feel affronted by other people's perceived progress in life, which impedes their ability to just be happy for them. These are not your friends. These are jealous [or insert synonym] people who are more comforted by your struggle than your "success".
Everything you describe sounds pretty normal for young people. Very few stay in the same apartment and job or drive the same car for very long. They want better things as they mature and they figure out how to accomplish it. IME very few stay at the "beginner" level forever, though they advance at different speed and to various levels.
Obviously if you are successful and happy with your life, then you're winning. Are these friends who sneer at you successful people? I do know that some people think that a successful life means getting into the same home, same partner, same job, same life, raising some kids and growing old in place. I don't like that notion much, either. I see the white-picket-fence "American Dream" as being overjoyed with mediocrity and wage-slavery to be honest. I do want a bit more than that for myself. But if it makes someone else happy, then hey. Good on 'em. That is their business now isn't it?
I do think that the old model of staying with the same company in the same role (more or less) for decades and retiring from that company, is not as effective in today's economy. In fact I'm pretty sure that some of the top business sites and publications have written about this. Often, upward mobility in terms of income, will require changing companies. But that is for people who have made of themselves, a desirable employee commodity, so you are forcing employers to compete for your skills. If you don't have a very competitive resume, then you can't play this game.
20 years ago, I was a barely-adult working the minimum wage of the time, stuck in unskilled jobs. I now make about 571% more than I did then. 19 years ago, I got into the first job that would lead into my professional career field. I make 303% more now, than I did then. 10 years ago, I had just started with the second of three companies I would work for (to date) in this field, getting more and more specialized all the time. I now make about 180% more than I did then.
Had I stayed with the original company where I started, there is no way I'd be making what I now make. In fact I'd imagine that working there right now, had I stayed, I'd be making maybe 60% of what I now make. Changing jobs, and locations, has been of great benefit to me every time I've done it.
And I see no reason that moving even to a new region every 5-10 years is some sort of an issue. I think it's great, really expands one's perspective, to do that. But I guess for someone who lives in the same hometown where they were raised, and roots for the home teams, and shapes their personal identity very strongly around a location...that would be weird and rootless. I remember living in Iowa and talking to people who had never left the state. Never seen the ocean!? That was completely bizarre to me.
Obviously if you are successful and happy with your life, then you're winning. Are these friends who sneer at you successful people? I do know that some people think that a successful life means getting into the same home, same partner, same job, same life, raising some kids and growing old in place. I don't like that notion much, either. I see the white-picket-fence "American Dream" as being overjoyed with mediocrity and wage-slavery to be honest. I do want a bit more than that for myself. But if it makes someone else happy, then hey. Good on 'em. That is their business now isn't it?
I do think that the old model of staying with the same company in the same role (more or less) for decades and retiring from that company, is not as effective in today's economy. In fact I'm pretty sure that some of the top business sites and publications have written about this. Often, upward mobility in terms of income, will require changing companies. But that is for people who have made of themselves, a desirable employee commodity, so you are forcing employers to compete for your skills. If you don't have a very competitive resume, then you can't play this game.
20 years ago, I was a barely-adult working the minimum wage of the time, stuck in unskilled jobs. I now make about 571% more than I did then. 19 years ago, I got into the first job that would lead into my professional career field. I make 303% more now, than I did then. 10 years ago, I had just started with the second of three companies I would work for (to date) in this field, getting more and more specialized all the time. I now make about 180% more than I did then.
Had I stayed with the original company where I started, there is no way I'd be making what I now make. In fact I'd imagine that working there right now, had I stayed, I'd be making maybe 60% of what I now make. Changing jobs, and locations, has been of great benefit to me every time I've done it.
And I see no reason that moving even to a new region every 5-10 years is some sort of an issue. I think it's great, really expands one's perspective, to do that. But I guess for someone who lives in the same hometown where they were raised, and roots for the home teams, and shapes their personal identity very strongly around a location...that would be weird and rootless. I remember living in Iowa and talking to people who had never left the state. Never seen the ocean!? That was completely bizarre to me.
Some are, ironically enough, my age and relatively successful as well. One that comes to mind specifically is a former co-worker of mine. And I know for a fact that he's jumped around nearly as much as I have, but only recently slowed down once they had a couple of children. But admittedly, most criticism comes from older generations.
One important point that often goes unnoticed or ignored is that a lot of my moves have been circumstantial. I graduated from college in 2008, amid the Great Recession. I was living outside of Detroit at the time; terrible economy. I relocated to Denver with nothing, but managed to land a job and an apartment after a few weeks of grinding. You live in Colorado, you understand the economical landscape. Here I am, first job out of college, making enough, but barely, and with a boat load of college debt. Rents and other costs have steadily, if not rapidly, risen in the past decade here on the Front Range. So every year, with my less than 1% COLA, I'm poorer than I was the year before because inflation is rising much more rapidly here. The only opportunity for me to survive and get ahead was to look for new jobs that paid more than my current job. So I'd move on to the next opportunity with a large pay bump, gain experience, and then look for the next opportunity 2-3 years later.
Ten years later, through diligent and strategic job changes, I now make enough to live comfortably where the average home value is hovering around $400k. I've paid off nearly all of my student loans. I've bought two homes in the past five years. Being static or complacent wasn't really an option for me, in my mind, in order to get ahead, buy a home, and start a family of my own. These are the reasons why I've made the choices I've made, not because I have ADD and entitlement issues.
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