My dog with a congestive heart failure is gone. Did I make the right decision? (variety, poop)
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ok, I know you think I am a horrible person, you are wrong. I love my dogs as much as I love my children, so there. I have 2 little Yorkies, I Make spicial food for their dinner I ground chicken Breast with oats and a little olive oil, and blue buffalo toy for their second meal. They get bathed and teeth brushed with Dr.cleaning once a year. They sleep in bed with us. My little 10 yr old female has so much love for everyone she wags her tail at a bush.
She has never gave us anything but love and joy. BUT, she had two tumors removed, just fat tumors, and he heard a heart murmur, so she coughs, she was breathing and panting, not sleeping well, also lost all hearing, so I put her on lasex so she drinking and peeing a lot, so it's up and down the steps all night. she whines some times and I can see labored breathing. There is no cure for this, but vets want you to keep coming in to add more meds tests ect.
What's the point? I feel this dog deserves better, why not let her go out before she is in pain and miserable. So if I can find a vet who will come to my home I will have her seddated and then put to sleep with me petting and loving her as I have the whole time she came into my life, until she takes her last breath.......
Sabrina, absolutely, you did the right thing. For this disease, there are some questions for which even the most experienced veterinary cardiologists have no answers. When will a dog go into CHF is one of those questions. Whether spending one or even two or three nights in an oxygen cage would help is another of those questions. I'm not a vet, just an owner, and have been through it twice and now have a third dog of the same breed that has just been diagnosed with congestive heart failure, end stage. He is, like the other two, a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, in which heart disease is being passed on genetically to more and more generations due to irresponsible breeding by commercial "puppy mills." But that is a story for another day. Other breeds get heart disease, too, and they end up in congestive heart failure. Our first Cavalier also had cancer when he went into CHF at age 13, so making the decision was not that difficult for my husband and me as that dog had lived a wonderful life, had lost all quality of life, and was miserable. Our question to ourselves was whether we waited too long and should have given him his freedom from suffering and misery earlier, rather than whether we decided too soon. Our second Cavalier, a rescue, was only 4 when he was diagnosed with a grade 3 murmur, but rocked along with no symptoms for five years until one day he sat down gasping for breath with a blueish tongue and terror in his eyes. His heart had enlarged to three times its normal size and he had advanced t0 a grade 5. After 2 nights in an oxygen cage and starting on the right combination of meds, he rebounded for a flew months but then went into CHF. Oddly, he never had another oxygen crash but his heart was so weak he began to accumulate fluid in his abdomen. A vet at the clinic drained what looked like about a half gallon of fluid and he was like a new dog running and full of energy to greet my husband upon his return from a trip. But the third day, I found him slumped outside the doggie door too bloated and weak again to push the flap open. I had spent many hours researching the disease on the internet, had rented an oxygen tank and had a dog stroller with me when we walked (in case he crashed from lack of air again) but had not expected such debilitating fluid and bloating. I promptly and optimistically returned to the vet's with him to have him drained again, and was told he should have lasted a couple of weeks and three days was too soon. After discussions with our vet, we made the decision to end his suffering. Within a month, we acquired a third Cavalier rescue, an elderly stray who came to us with an advanced grade 5 MVD. Our vet predicted he would only last a few months. He did fine for over three years. Last week he was diagnosed as being in CHF, and spent 2 nights in ICU in an oxygen cage and this week, spent 3 more nights and another 14 hours in one before he stablized on room air with adjustments and additions to his meds. Miraculously, thanks to the determination of the vets, he has been home now two days and is holding his own. For how long we will continue to have the gift of having him with us is an unknown, a few more hours, a few days, another month ... he also has pneumonia. The vets say if he has to go back one more time for the oxygen cage, they will recommend euthanasia. My own non-professional research (I'm not a doctor) has led me to conclude that the only answer at this time for me to do, after I rent the oxygen tank again and bring the stroller down from the attic, is to continue research on this disease and to buy or build a home-made oxygen crate for him and to see if that helps on a temporary basis. Yes, each loss is devastating, and I always feel there was more that I could or should have done. But I also have experienced now the inevitable unstoppable nature of the disease. We can win small battles by slowing it down, sometimes giving our dogs more time to enjoy living, but no matter what the vets or we do, it will win. Much has been learned by veterinary research about it over the past ten years or so and great progress is being made in the types of drugs available, how best to use and combine them (especially Vetmedin), how to slow down the progression of the disease, and perhaps most importantly, the development of a protocol for breeding that, if followed, will assure that the disease is not passed on to future generations. I believe good breeders are following it now. The next frontier is to make it mandatory, enlist the aid of the AKC to stop registering puppies for which the parents were not determined to have been clear of the disease, and ultimately force puppy mills to shut down.
Last edited by j_gardner; 10-09-2016 at 03:20 AM..
Reason: Corrected singular to plural cardiologists, and varioius typos.
I know the posts in this thread are older so I don't know if anyone will read this but reading some of these posts have helped make me feel a bit better so I thought I'd write my little Twinkles story to see if I can find anymore comfort. It's a VERY long post so if you'd prefer just scroll down to the last part.
Twinkles was a happy sweet 10 year old chihuahua who we loved so much. A few months ago she started coughing getting progressively worse over time. I took her to my own vet, her partner plus 3 other vets in addition to specialists looking for answers. I was reminded that she had a heart murmur and she was referred to a cardiologist who put her on an antibiotic and prednisone 1 mg twice a day to begin with for 3 weeks tapering her down. She didn't recommend any heart meds at that time. She said she may need to see an internal medicine doctor who I took her to soon after. That doctor increased her prednisone to 5 mg a day tapering to nothing, recommending a steroidal inhaler in place of oral if she didn't get better but they suggested getting it from Canada because it would have been so expensive here. In the mean time her coughing improved somewhat but within about a month her breathing became progressively more labored. I called to talk to the internal medicine doctor but was always given her assistants to talk to, "nurse", as they called her, right! She told me Twinkles needed to stay on the prednisone until she received the inhaler than be on them both until she stabilized. It would take another 3 weeks at least to get the inhaler which we had just barely gotten ordered this past monday. In the meantime Twinkles breathing was really labored and she still coughed some and she could barely walk 20 feet and then one plop down. I mentioned all of this to the assistant and questioned the higher dose prednisone and she insisted that she should continue on the prednisone, Turbutaline (bronchodialator) and Torbutrol (cough suppresant) until she started on the inhaler. Then we took Twinkles to Tennessee with us (to see the eclipse) which we had planned long ago driving from the Chicago area. She did fine, was still having labored breathing but I was able to calm her down and then she acted pretty normal, good appetite.
Backup; It was suspected that she had a collapsed treachea or bronchitis, they really didn't know. I had taken her back to our vet to check out the labored breathing she said if it got worse take her to the emergency room. She mentioned when seeing a few drips from Twinkles nose that I should watch that because it would indicate fluid build up. I had even taken Twinkles to a holistic vet to get a different perspective, that was a joke, even though I use herbs and essential oils safely he gave me very poor advice, another story. I was at a loss and couldn't think of what else to do for her.
Fast forward; In Tennessee the heat seemed to make things a little harder for Twinkles so we kept her in the cool air conditioning as much as possible but she'd want to come out of our trailer and walk around and check things out. She did stop walking once and had to lay down but she didn't seem any worse until almost 2 days later when I decided I'd make an appointment for as soon as I got back, yesterday. Then late Sunday night my daughter told me she looked like she was having a hard time. When we checked on her she was breathing really heavy, her eyes were bulging and her posture was different. She was holding her head up as if stretching her neck. I decided to find an emergency hospital.
About an hour later about 1:30 am I quickly handed Twinkles over to the staff. I felt horrible because they said I couldn't go back to where she was to be with her and comfort her. She was terrified of vets offices and I knew that would stress her out more. After about 45 minutes I was getting really angry that I hadn't had an update and finally the doctor came out and told me Twinkles would need to stay that the Lasix and oxygen tent didn't seem to be helping. She told me that Twinkles heart was huge, she had congestive heart failure, her heart was compressing her trachea and she was worried she'd go into respiratory arrest. I told her the cardiologist didn't see any issues even a few weeks earlier. She said it may have been the large amounts of prednisone which made me so upset since I didn't listen to my gut that it was too much.
I know this is long so I'll try to make it shorter relating the parts that make me so angry at myself.
* I should have insisted that they let me go back with her or I'd leave with her?
* They had me sign a paper for what I wanted to happen; DNR or CPR. I was so frustrated and scared I couldn't make sense of it and just checked the box that the staff told me most people check when they don't know, which was to do CPR, which I didn't realize until later. I didn't think at the time meant to intubate her. I thought they'd just put a little mask on her with oxygen.
* When they finally called me in they were already intubating her. A horrible site. I told them to get it out, she looked so scared although I couldn't really tell you if she was fully conscious. First thing they told me is that when they took it out she wouldn't be able to breathe so I asked them to get the euthanasia meds ready quickly. I was able to hold her then but it was way too late to really comfort her. It was the most horrible experience.
* Before all this I knew she couldn't live much longer with these issues so I had her death planned. My vet had come to my house for my last dog and euthanized her at home in my arms to avoid the fear of the vets office. This was how it was to be with Twinkles.
* I should have insisted the we try stopping the prednisone to see how she did! Is should have listened to what "I" thought was best.
* I should have insisted that I talk to the DOCTOR instead of the fake "nurse"!
* I should have taken her back to the doctor when her breathing never got better and got worse and not trusted that the "nurse" knew better.
* I should have taken her to the emergency hospital much sooner. I had been SO SO worried about her.
* I was so busy with my family and travel, true I hadn't seen my pregnant daughter for a long time or her husband who live out of state, that I neglected poor little Twinkles. They would have understood and it might have saved Twinkles life.
* All this reminded me that my vet a few weeks earlier had mentioned at one point that her enlarged heart was compressing her trachea. Why didn't the other doctors see that it was the that and not her trachea weakening or her lungs???? Why didn't I remember that and bring it to their attention?
* If I had taken her to the doctor a week or so sooner they could have given her the lasix sooner and prolonged her life until she got home and she could have had a peaceful death as I had planned.
* Why hadn't I looked for other specialists who may have known better what to do?
* I was just so busy with my own stuff that I didn't pay enough attention.
*
Etc, Etc All the above things ARE things I could have done. I know this is something that I will always feel and I have to get past it. I know sometimes you have to trust the doctors because it was certainly a new experience for me and I didn't know. I always console myself with the thought that "You do the best with what you know and when you know more your do better." But I'm 62 years old, I should know better by now. I feel I let Twinkles suffer and didn't do enough. I am feeling so guilty, devastated and angry at myself. I miss her so much. If I could just go back in time even 3 or 4 days maybe I could have saved her at least long enough to give her a peaceful passing in her own home. I did bring her body home with me to be creamated here by the way, to have a box with her ashes and a picture as I have for my last dog that died.
I just read over the cardiologists notes and now saw instructions that about immediate emergency attention with labored breathing or inability to rest. I didn't take her until it was too late. I clearly, irrevocably screwed up.
I don't guess there is anything anyone can say to make me feel better. I know she was sick and would probably have died sometime soon but for now it's my fault that she died so soon. I should have taken her to see a doctor sooner. If anyone has read this, thank you for taking the time. For now I'll sit and be angry at myself and I guess, have a pity party. Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.
Last edited by TwinkleshowImissyou; 08-23-2017 at 01:38 PM..
Reason: should be new post
I'm so sorry. I'm new to this website, just happened to come across it and probably should have put it somewhere else. I will if someone can help me figure out how.
THOMY (The abbreviation for TwinkleshowImissyou), I don't think there's a pet owner alive who hasn't questioned such a difficult decision. When I had made the appointment for a mobile vet to come to my apartment and put down my elderly cat, and I was questioning myself, my daughter told me: "In a perfect world you'd have unlimited resources and unlimited patience. But it's not a perfect world, so you just do the best you can with the knowledge you have. It's not really her time, so you'll always wonder if you should have waited, and how long."
My cat was put to sleep a week ago, and yes, I'm still thinking, "Did I do the right thing?" even though I wrestled with this decision for a very long time. Should I have spent $1,000 on radioiodine therapy for my hyperthyroid kitty, etc.? In the end, though, we make the best choice we can. I'm sorry that you're going through this.
You never know, by the way, if it really will be a peaceful passing in your home. My experience was the opposite, which is also why I feel such guilt. There is never a guarantee. I thought I'd be holding my cat when the final shot was administered. Instead I was sobbing in the kitchen while my daughter was stroking and petting my cat as she left this life. Please try to forgive yourself; I'm sure you daughter would want you to!
I'm pretty sure this is just part of the grieving process (not that knowing this makes it any easier, I know!). *hugs* to you, and I hope you enjoyed seeing your daughter. When is the baby due? (My daughter is pregnant with her first baby; my grandson is due in early January.)
Twinkles had a failing heart and in the end, she was dying. You could hgave prolonged it but I believr she was ready to go. The last best thing we can do is let them go in peace. ((Hugs))
My first dog had a heart murmur and was on medications for it, then at 14 she developed Lymphoma so the plan was just to keep her comfortable for what ever time she had left and she at that point was still eating still happy. I had just finished 3 nights at work and came home and when I fed her she did not want to eat ( and she loved food) When she looked up at me I knew it was time there was just something in her look. I called my vet made an appointment for the end of the day. Got a few hours sleep but was up by noon to take a picnic lunch and the dog to the nearby park where we could just sit and relax and spend time together. As I sat with her I started 2nd guessing my decision as she really did not seem to be in pain and seemed happy she just did not want to eat. I kept thinking when we get home I will call the vet and cancel.
As we sat there she suddenly started to have trouble breathing and I work in the medical field so know CHF well . I picked her up and could feel the rattle of fluid in her chest, stopped at my house to grab my checkbook and call the vet to let them know we were coming now. ( yup time before bank cards and cell phones) I had her in the front seat next to me and she was not doing well as we got to within a mile from the vets she put her front paw on my knee and looked up at me just before she passed out. It was like she was saying it will be all right. Got to the vets and ran in holding my comatose dog who was still struggling to breathe. A customer at the counter turned and said Do not worry they will fix her They ushered me into a treatment room and the vet walked in with the injections and I think she was near her last breath as he injected her. While it was a horrible experience I have always felt that she knew it was time and knew I was beginning to question that so she took the decision from me or God did and having that feeling brought me peace. As yes her death could have gone easier but at least I was not stretching it out.Too often because of the hurt we will feel we want to extend the time at the end . I see it at work all the time.We humans have a hard time letting go when death is just another part of life we can not stop it. We can prolong it these days which often is sad.
I felt bad that at the last 3 days of her life I had spent those 3 nights at work for 12 hours then slept most of the day so did not get to spend much time with her but life is unexpected like that we do not know in advance what each minute will bring.
Your dogs heart was bad and while things did not go how you wanted them too there really was not a lot that could have been done bad hearts reach a point where all the meds in the world will not keep them going so do not beat yourself up you are not at fault. Lasix maybe could have bought a little time but once the heart is enlarged even getting the fluid off is just a very temporary fix as it can no longer pump well. As with my dog CHF can get very bad within minutes. The sudden onset is often how human doctors figure out what is going on so fast. I hope with time you can come to peace with her death .It is horrible to have to witness an death that involves a struggle but with CHF it is often the case. So please try to let go of the what ifs and stop blaming yourself as you are not at fault.(((Hugs to you)))
I've had several dogs and cats put down when it was obvious the end had come. They might have lasted a little while, but in pain and not well. They all had this look in their eyes, like I'm so tired. It said they were ready. One of my dogs got attacked, and had a lot of bleeding, and she was fourteen. The vet said they could treat her, and she'd be in pain and there was surgery, but he couldn't tell before if her lungs were punctured. She wouldn't make it then. I decided to have her put down while she was in shock and there was no pain. She was hurting already, and not eating well. I wasn't there when they did it, but she wasn't really aware of anything past the attack.
He has land and they offer burial in a cemetary for pets. So she's resting there now.
I've gone through my mind with all the possible things I might have done. I felt like there had to be something. But she was very frail, walking carefully like it was an effort. She'd get confused too, like some kind of doggie dementia. I'd been considering if it was time. It just was so terrible that it had to be from something terrifying.
I still get torn up about it. But I did the right thing. Even if she had recovered, she would still be unwell and in pain. I just wish I could have hugged her and said good bye.
Sometimes we make plans and we don't get to use them, and maybe if it had come sooner... but that little creature loved you and you were there, and now they are in peace. Cherish the memories and know that love never goes away.
I know the posts in this thread are older so I don't know if anyone will read this but reading some of these posts have helped make me feel a bit better so I thought I'd write my little Twinkles story to see if I can find anymore comfort. It's a VERY long post so if you'd prefer just scroll down to the last part.
Twinkles was a happy sweet 10 year old chihuahua who we loved so much. . .
Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.
It doesn't matter that the previous posts in this thread are older - your post is exactly what this thread is for. You've said all the things that needed to be said so very well. Including this:
Quote:
"You do the best with what you know and when you know more your do better."
And, as you've noticed, sometimes, as we get older, it is harder to forgive ourselves when we don't listen to ourselves well enough - so we feel some remorse and regret.
This was a difficult situation. There was no "right" way to do things. It is not easy. You had an excellent plan, having your vet come to your house, but things didn't work out that way. I am sure your pup would forgive you, and I send my condolences for your grief.
By the way, I personally do NOT like to use the emergency vet hospitals for this kind of thing. Especially not when the dog is close to the end. There are a number of reasons - most of which you experienced. They do not know me, nor my pet. They always want to cut me off from contact with the pet while they work - which I do NOT like - even from my regular vet. They are expensive, and they are inclined towards a high level of intervention. So, I've just taken to avoiding them. My regular vet is out on weekends and evenings, so I have a backup vet I use for evenings and weekends. If I have a real emergency between those times, I'll go to the emergency vet hospital. Not until then.
I feel for you, and I know that others in this forum do as well. I won't say "chin up", because grieving is important - but the sun WILL shine again.
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I was So wrong.
Please try to forgive yourself; I'm sure you daughter would want you to!
They ushered me into a treatment room and the vet walked in with the injections and I think she was near her last breath as he injected her. While it was a horrible experience I have always felt that she knew it was time and knew I was beginning to question that so she took the decision from me or God did and having that feeling brought me peace. As yes her death could have gone easier but at least I was not stretching it out.Too often because of the hurt we will feel we want to extend the time at the end . I see it at work all the time.We humans have a hard time letting go when death is just another part of life we can not stop it. We can prolong it these days which often is sad. 
