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I stated numerous times that what I was showing wasn't the best example, so my diagram of connecting to another road was to be taken as a generic example.
If you think crime is a factor with 2-outlet subdivisions, then put a gate at the 2nd one, the benefits are still there.
Here again I see people basing planning for next 25 years based on "4 hours of rush hour traffic today". Well here in Atlanta, I won't get on any interstate except at night or early on Sat or Sunday morning now, because of inaction over the last 25 years. The risk of coming to a complete standstill is too great now (even before yesterday's I-85 collapse).
So I stand behind my 2-outlet minimum, and I won't post again.
What the Triangle is really missing out on, is that Charlotte and Atlanta and many other cities are densifying around a separate mode of transit like light rail and heavy rail lines. Perhaps density around the rail line through Cary and NC State is possible if a commuter line ever able to share usage of that corridor.
Atlanta has about 20 separate neighborhoods now of walkable density in which everything someone needs is within walking distance and there's also access to MARTA or the Atlanta Beltline trail which may get light rail in the future.
Companies are basing their headquarters locations on access to rail lines in Atlanta, including State Farm and Mercedes' North American headquarters choosing the area around Perimeter Mall. Here in Midtown Atlanta, we have at least 40 new high rises going up including many new business headquarters like NCR coming here. Buckhead has about 30 new high rises under construction and both areas have access to transit.
Charlotte has dozens of apartment complexes right beside their light rail lines which enable walkability and access to downtown core and sports venues. They have a downtown with enough employees to make their light rail work.
I know Raleigh may not ever want any of this, so where do you want new growth to occur or do you want it to cease altogether?
WALKABILITY IS A LUXURY for me to not get in a car on the weekends. It is heavenly.
Last edited by architect77; 03-31-2017 at 08:33 PM..
the entire post you quoted showed a stunning lack of knowledge from someone who theoretically does this for a living.
1. the watershed
2. the fact FON almost completely developed already
3. where the old landfill is, and a willingness to lose parkland and walking paths for roads
4. what would be involved environmentally with building 2 large bridges across the Neuse River and a railroad line
5. as you noted, adding traffic to Capital Blvd, and directing folks AWAY from where they're trying to go
STUNNING LACK of ability in reading "not the best example".
Every city and urban planner worldwide would have objections to current development pattern seen in Triangle.
Capital Blvd. and Falls of Neuse both head towards Beltline and Downtown, not in different directions.
New Subidivisions can continue unabated on most of Raleigh's "spoke" arterials to the Virginia border to the North, same in other directions.
So everyone's against density intown, so please direct where the Triangle's 2040 population of 3.2 million residents (NCDOT's 2040 estimate) show go.
STUNNING LACK of ability in reading "not the best example".
Every city and urban planner worldwide would have objections to current development pattern seen in Triangle.
Capital Blvd. and Falls of Neuse both head towards Beltline and Downtown, not in different directions.
New Subidivisions can continue unabated on most of Raleigh's "spoke" arterials to the Virginia border to the North, same in other directions.
So everyone's against density intown, so please direct where the Triangle's 2040 population of 3.2 million residents (NCDOT's 2040 estimate) show go.
No, BoBromhal was correct. What you posted was such a bad plan that "not the best example" didn't begin to describe it.
The only thing it served as an example of at all, is that planning for an area should probably be left to someone familiar with the area. Things that might seem like a good idea on paper maps accompanied by traffic flow data don't necessarily translate to effective solutions.
There were additional problems with your plan. For example with the assertion that the entire development must exist through Falls of Neuse. Not really, there are already two outlets - they can exit on Durant Rd, its just more of a hike from the north side (but not much more of a hike than going all the way east and across one of those proposed bridges, then all the down Capital, just so they can then travel back west to get to their real destination!) Also, you seemed to assume that all of the FON traffic is coming from subdivisions on FON or near Falls River/Bedford. How about all those cars coming from Wake Forest, Wakefield, etc.? The ones that are trying to escape Capital which is already a parking lot?
Lots of people in the subdivisions you're focusing on work from home, or own their own business that puts them traveling outside the peak commute hours. It would be a miracle if one observed any relief on FON traffic at all from your proposed outlets, and for that reason it was beyond "not the best example". Plus, it would just create more headaches for the thousands of homes in those developments.
So yes, it exhibited a stunning lack of knowledge about the traffic problems in that area, that resulted from a lack of familiarity with the "real world" situation, and an attempt to make decisions for a community in which you don't reside. I'm not going to assume that makes you terrible at your job, I'm sure you could come up with good ideas for the areas you drive in daily.
If you really want to do something useful, tackle something easier like increasing flow on 540. Widening it, adding optional toll lanes, etc. Probably not as fun to work on because the solutions don't require as much creative thinking, but there is a hell of a lot more opportunity for improvement there than creating bridges from Falls River to US-1.
So yes, it exhibited a stunning lack of knowledge about the traffic problems in that area, that resulted from a lack of familiarity with the "real world" situation, and an attempt to make decisions for a community in which you don't reside. I'm not going to assume that makes you terrible at your job, I'm sure you could come up with good ideas for the areas you drive in daily.
Ironically, the guy in charge of transportation planning for the City of Raleigh lives in the Bedford area haha (Someone told me that once)
Last edited by pierretong1991; 04-01-2017 at 08:07 AM..
Ironically, the guy in charge of transportation planning for the City of Raleigh lives in the Bedford area haha (Someone told me that once)
It's entirely possible. I don't have any direct knowledge of that individual, but it might not be quite as ironic as it seems on the surface. Understanding traffic issues of the area and having good ideas on how to address them are one thing. Having the freedom to implement those ideas is something different entirely. I would think that a public servant is under a certain amount of pressure to ensure his own neighborhood is not getting more attention than other neighborhoods that he doesn't live in. He is always going to be under more scrutiny, especially in the days of rapid gossip enablers like social media, so he might actually have to look the other way when it comes to improvements near his own home if he wants to keep his job. Which of course is unfortunate for his neighbors if that's the case, but with plenty of gossipy citizens around posting this or that accusatory comment, who knows.
It's entirely possible. I don't have any direct knowledge of that individual, but it might not be quite as ironic as it seems on the surface. Understanding traffic issues of the area and having good ideas on how to address them are one thing. Having the freedom to implement those ideas is something different entirely. I would think that a public servant is under a certain amount of pressure to ensure his own neighborhood is not getting more attention than other neighborhoods that he doesn't live in, because he's always going to be under more scrutiny, especially in the days of rapid gossip enablers like social media, so he might actually have to look the other way when it comes to improving FON near his own home if he wants to keep his job. Which of course is unfortunate for his neighbors if that's the case, but with plenty of gossipy citizens around posting this or that accusatory comment, who knows.
Oh I absolutely agree, I was just pointing it out that it was sort of funny when you said that - I don't know if "looking the other way" is the correct way to say it but I'm sure the City/transportation planning has some way to objectively prioritize projects so it doesn't look like they are taking sides. I know NCDOT does now with the new scoring formula that was enacted under Pat McCrory's administration.
Next time I show a graphic, I will make sure to remove all names, places, extraneous content, leaving only the gestalt of my idea for form-based planning for next 25 years.
And I'm a native of Louisburg and remember when the Beltline was merely an arch on Raleigh's north side, and development totally ended on Capital (North Blvd.) at Mini City. New Hope Rd and Buffaloe Rd hadn't been extended around Capital/US- and none of the sketchy neighborhoods (Courtney Square) had been built yet. I also graduated from NC State so I know Raleigh better than the newcomers.
So I pitched my idea. Let's see all of your great ideas to keep Raleigh flowing well with 1,000,000 new Triangle residents in 2040.
Charlotte Ordinance: "All new development should provide for more than one access for ingress and egress, where feasible. Cul-de-sacs and other permanently dead-end streets should be avoided."
After NCDOT made such a huge deal in justifying the expenditure on a mast-arm traffic signal in 5 Points for improved safety, I worry that that Raleigh will be the only city left with sagging wire traffic signals. Charlotte, Virginia, Atlanta, West Coast all have better-looking mast-arm signals.
Crabtree needs a Streetscape improvement like Atlanta' Buckhead around mall:
Cary's nicer poles should be influencing the decision makers in Raleigh.
The new mast arm on Creedmoor Rd., at Kidds Hill, is grotesque. Weird.
Way too long a cantilever arm for the lights on it and the base on the east side of the street. It looks like it could collapse, although I am sure it is engineered. Just ugly with the pronounced sag and top-heaviness.
I guess they couldn't find a place in front of BBT to anchor it to cross the street with a decent esthetic.
You completely lost me at why mast arms are necessary for signals. The reason the 5 Points signal was replaced is because Glenwood Avenue curves north of the 5 Points signal and one of the signal supports was at the curve and it kept getting hit. It wasn't because the signals were just randomly falling down
You completely lost me at why mast arms are necessary for signals. The reason the 5 Points signal was replaced is because Glenwood Avenue curves north of the 5 Points signal and one of the signal supports was at the curve and it kept getting hit. It wasn't because the signals were just randomly falling down
It is an esthetic for the artsy folk.
Cary was criticized several years ago by an appearance consultant they hired.
Wire-hung signals and concrete medians.
Big deal....
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