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I have a friend that lives in Trinity in Durham in a really expensive house and has heard gunshots from her own yard. She's only been there 2 years. I think there are some really great little bungalows there, but you will notice that Durham posts it's public crime records on the county website. The friend that lives in Trinity says you can't leave anything in the front yard or it will be gone, but she says she wouldn't leave anything there no matter where she lives. We were looking at Durham when we bought our house 3 years ago and decided against it since we were shocked that every house we were interested in had a great number of crime incedents within a mile radius. Most were theft or burglary, but some were murders and rape. One or two crimes in a mile radius was okay, but 15 t 20 incedents was way too much. You may not find this in the South part of Durham, but we were looking in the historic district near Trinity.
We live in "Trinity" (Trinity Park) and have also heard gunshots -- as well as fireworks from the Bulls games, the American Tobacco whistle each morning, trains going by, and music from the Bull Durham Blues Festival.
When we lived outside DC, in Boston, and in Richmond, we also heard gunshots occasionally there -- no more so (except for Cambridge) or less so, really.
I have yet to see a place that would have "one or two crimes in a mile radius" that was not so safe because of the fact that it did not also have cultural amenities like a university, sports stadium, downtown, dense neighborhoods, etc.
Mind you, I'm not saying that your preferences are right or wrong, or that it was wrong for you to place safety as the paramount priority. That's an individual choice. But it is not everyone's choice or only choice.
We could live somewhere like Preston in Cary where there would be no crime and everyone around us would look like us (two-income professionals, college grads, MBA/law degree, etc.) But that's not what we were looking for.
Again, pointing this out not to criticize you, but to add that--
a) We live here too and feel relatively safe, as much so as we would in any city.
b) We wouldn't trade the benefits of living in a city for the benefits (whatever they are) or perceived safety.
Different strokes for different folks!
I'd add that not all New Englanders would make the Cary-or-SW-Durham-only choice. Some might. Some might not. If we had stayed in New England we were looking at lofts in Lowell, Mass., which I imagine someone from outside Worcester also wouldn't want to live in.
I would not say Durham has more character than Cary. I would say that Raleigh, Durham and Cary all have character, just different kinds of character. Not liking what a town or city offers does not mean it does not have character. It just doesn't have the kind of character you like.
You wouldn't say that, but many other people would. To the OP, you will get a lot of different opinions from many different people. I'd say the best thing to do would be to visit, and figure it out for yourself. After all, one man's trash, is another man's treasure.
We live in "Trinity" (Trinity Park) and have also heard gunshots -- as well as fireworks from the Bulls games, the American Tobacco whistle each morning, trains going by, and music from the Bull Durham Blues Festival.
When we lived outside DC, in Boston, and in Richmond, we also heard gunshots occasionally there -- no more so (except for Cambridge) or less so, really.
In a supposedly nice area, you hear gunshots and you are alright with that?
This helps make the situation very clear. The people that insist Durham is just as safe as anywhere else and they have no fear whatsoever, yet hear gunshots around their house probably do not speak for people that have an issue with elevated crime rates. There is NO WAY I would live somewhere I hear gunshots unless it was from hunters and even then I would not want to be too close to it.
To the OP, here is the Durham Crime Mapper website. You can find the house you want and then check the map to see how much crime is around it. I would advise you NOT to buy in an area where the background noise is neighborhood gunshots, but that's just me. Call me crazy.
In a supposedly nice area, you hear gunshots and you are alright with that?
This helps make the situation very clear. The people that insist Durham is just as safe as anywhere else and they have no fear whatsoever, yet hear gunshots around their house probably do not speak for people that have an issue with elevated crime rates. There is NO WAY I would live somewhere I hear gunshots unless it was from hunters and even then I would not want to be too close to it.
To the OP, here is the Durham Crime Mapper website. You can find the house you want and then check the map to see how much crime is around it. I would advise you NOT to buy in an area where the background noise is neighborhood gunshots, but that's just me. Call me crazy.
I grew up in North Durham near the border of Orange County (Hillsborough address). We heard gun shots nearby b/c people were hunting or shooting in their yard for the fun of it. I visited my parents the other day and heard a gun shot. It is a bit more rural so you WILL find gun shots in those areas for those reasons. MOST cities you will her gun shots from time to time for obvious reasons already mentioned. Cary/North Raleigh/SW Durham and other suburban areas you are less likely to hear gun shots b/c crime is lower and you can't hunt/shoot in yard. MOST of Durham is very safe and it's getting really old you trying to defend how scary and dangerous Durham is.
I've spent most of my life here and know where the dangerous areas are. I have NEVER had anything stolen or broken into even when I lived in town (in both Duke Forest, West Durham, and SE Durham near Brier Creek). I have never been mugged, raped, shot, or know anyone who has. How about you leave it to those who know what they are talking about? Try to stick to YOUR experiences in Durham. Seriously, what's you deal? It's BEYOND getting old.
In a supposedly nice area, you hear gunshots and you are alright with that?
This helps make the situation very clear. The people that insist Durham is just as safe as anywhere else and they have no fear whatsoever, yet hear gunshots around their house probably do not speak for people that have an issue with elevated crime rates. There is NO WAY I would live somewhere I hear gunshots unless it was from hunters and even then I would not want to be too close to it.
To the OP, here is the Durham Crime Mapper website. You can find the house you want and then check the map to see how much crime is around it. I would advise you NOT to buy in an area where the background noise is neighborhood gunshots, but that's just me. Call me crazy.
Ummm, I think he said he has HEARD gunshots. Not that the background noise in his neighborhood was the continuous sound of gunshots
Precisely, Coltank. An occasional, nay rare happening.
CD, I am amazed to think that you spend your days at a job with people whose worldviews and experiences may be slightly different from yours. Your dig about the area being "supposedly nice" -- yeah, believe it or not, in an area that's actually had gunshots, people will pay $300k-$1m+ for a house.
I know, CRAZY!?! What the hell are we thinking, we should all move out to upper-middle-class suburbs where there is no poverty and life is perfect! We can even go out volunteering with Habitat for Humanity to make us feel better about ourselves.
And believe me, I've said over and over again -- if you're the kind of person whose number one overriding fear is safety, you probably wouldn't want to live in ANY city.
Certainly some balance must be struck here. And though I may not be the one to strike that balance, I can only attest to my personal firsthand experiences with Durham in comparison with other places I have lived. This, along with what I read on various blogs, listservs, websites and this one.
Unless there is some evidence to prove otherwise, I couldn't agree with the idea that in most cities, someone is going to hear gunshots from time to time. Unless one counts the gunshots heard on the news. Growing up and living in Los Angeles (all over Los Angeles and Orange County), I never really heard gunshots. It wasn't all that common. But this isn't to say, obviously, that thousands of bullets are not discharged from guns on a monthly basis there. It's just that I haven't heard it, and if someone did, it became news. Of course, if I lived in East Los Angeles, I'm sure my chances of hearing them more regularly would increase dramatically.
However, I live closer to what may be considered the East Los Angeles of Durham. But since Durham isn't all that big compared to where I use to live, that accounts for a lot of safe residential areas that are close to what others perceive as unsafe areas. With that said, I've heard more gunshots now in the few years we've been here than I ever had cumulatively in all the decades I lived in Los Angeles. I don't think lightly of it. I don't accept it. And I am in constant contact with, what I think is, our great city police department. Not perfect, but I think they're embracing and responsive as a whole.
So, I agree with Charleton Dude that we must NEVER even hint that we accept gunshots within city limits (since gunshots in rural areas may be, I guess, hunting shots) as a way of life. Me, personally, I have zero tolerance for violent crimes against people and their property. Always have always will. And I do have take issue with anyone who would openly accept such behavior for any reason (and this is NOT to imply anything against anyone here... just stating my opinion in general).
We don't live in fear, however. There are things I hear now that I never heard on the west coast because it gets fairly quiet around here at night. So, a gunshot from ten miles away is gonna have a chance of reaching my house audibly especially the way the topopgraphy is laid out. I've actually heard people talking one night that were way down the block because it was so quiet at one point that the topography, I guess, acted like an auditorium allowing sounds to reach me (however faint). So, I am not surprised that gunshots can be heard from afar (we should do a gunshot test one night to see how many CD people from all over Durham can hear it at the same time - LOL).
Ultimately, though, if any of us hear a gunshot in the distance, then it's a gunshot someone or some thing is dealing with close up. And if I do have an issue with some people here, then it's any excuse for the disregard of this fact. If I must criticize, then the main criticism would be that I do not hear enough from the community intolerance to gunshots, theft, and petty crimes in general. It may not be fact, but it often appears that communities members are too tolerant and acceptant of crimes that do occur, even though they would prefer that a crime would have not been committed in the first place.
Other than that, the reality has been that Durham has had a bad rap when it comes to crime. I don't think it's as bad as others indicated to me before we arrived. However, I don't think it's wrong for someone to react to the reputation and address the reports of crime we hear about. As those of us who live here in Durham have found out after some time of living here, the rumors are far worse than the reality and even the reality is improving as the community within neighborhoods become more active against crime. In three years, I have seen change. But we are not there... yet.
I have written this before, but the perception of widespread crime here will not be quelled by our city police department. It will be quelled by the individuals that make up each and every community. And if the majority of community members do nothing to change that perception and show signs of helplessness against the issue, then the rep will live on and those making a habit of committing such crimes will seize the advantage and encourage its prevalence.
Fortunately, I think Durham has enough active individuals now to draw various community members closer together and take a stand against crime and any prevalent perceptions. Unfortunately, I think from what I've read, that there is still enough people who choose to turn their head, not get involved or worse yet, accept crime as a way of life (yes, crime happens everywhere... but we must never accept it).
Sure, Charleton Dude is opinionated, openly favors Cary and doesn't appear to care for Durham much. But I think it's okay that he states his case against Durham. It only means that we just need to be a little more convincing about what we think is great about Durham. And if we do not argue the perceptions with facts, then those perceptions become facts in the eye of the beholder. So let's just stop fighting people about what they think is truth, and dazzle them with what IS truth (unless the truth is the perception they speak and, if so, then we speak how we're improving that perception). I just think we try to repel all that's negatively thrown around about Durham rather than embrace what is generally said, address the issue properly, and discuss factually what's being done the improve the negative while highlighting the positives of what this city has to offer.
No matter what, any time someone brings up Durham is an opportunity to brag about it. So, why not address our shortcomings and let's just brag about Durham! Yes?
Ummm, I think he said he has HEARD gunshots. Not that the background noise in his neighborhood was the continuous sound of gunshots
Exactly. Charlton Dude, this is what's called a straw man argument: you inaccurately restated what someone else said in an effort to make your case. Bull City Rising actually said that he has heard gunshots. You changed this in your reply to make it appear as though he had said that he heard gunshots morning, noon, and night.
This is something you do a lot, and it's not effective.
Certainly some balance must be struck here. And though I may not be the one to strike that balance, I can only attest to my personal firsthand experiences with Durham in comparison with other places I have lived. This, along with what I read on various blogs, listservs, websites and this one.
Unless there is some evidence to prove otherwise, I couldn't agree with the idea that in most cities, someone is going to hear gunshots from time to time. Unless one counts the gunshots heard on the news. Growing up and living in Los Angeles (all over Los Angeles and Orange County), I never really heard gunshots. It wasn't all that common. But this isn't to say, obviously, that thousands of bullets are not discharged from guns on a monthly basis there. It's just that I haven't heard it, and if someone did, it became news. Of course, if I lived in East Los Angeles, I'm sure my chances of hearing them more regularly would increase dramatically.
However, I live closer to what may be considered the East Los Angeles of Durham. But since Durham isn't all that big compared to where I use to live, that accounts for a lot of safe residential areas that are close to what others perceive as unsafe areas. With that said, I've heard more gunshots now in the few years we've been here than I ever had cumulatively in all the decades I lived in Los Angeles. I don't think lightly of it. I don't accept it. And I am in constant contact with, what I think is, our great city police department. Not perfect, but I think they're embracing and responsive as a whole.
So, I agree with Charleton Dude that we must NEVER even hint that we accept gunshots within city limits (since gunshots in rural areas may be, I guess, hunting shots) as a way of life. Me, personally, I have zero tolerance for violent crimes against people and their property. Always have always will. And I do have take issue with anyone who would openly accept such behavior for any reason (and this is NOT to imply anything against anyone here... just stating my opinion in general).
We don't live in fear, however. There are things I hear now that I never heard on the west coast because it gets fairly quiet around here at night. So, a gunshot from ten miles away is gonna have a chance of reaching my house audibly especially the way the topopgraphy is laid out. I've actually heard people talking one night that were way down the block because it was so quiet at one point that the topography, I guess, acted like an auditorium allowing sounds to reach me (however faint). So, I am not surprised that gunshots can be heard from afar (we should do a gunshot test one night to see how many CD people from all over Durham can hear it at the same time - LOL).
Ultimately, though, if any of us hear a gunshot in the distance, then it's a gunshot someone or some thing is dealing with close up. And if I do have an issue with some people here, then it's any excuse for the disregard of this fact. If I must criticize, then the main criticism would be that I do not hear enough from the community intolerance to gunshots, theft, and petty crimes in general. It may not be fact, but it often appears that communities members are too tolerant and acceptant of crimes that do occur, even though they would prefer that a crime would have not been committed in the first place.
Other than that, the reality has been that Durham has had a bad rap when it comes to crime. I don't think it's as bad as others indicated to me before we arrived. However, I don't think it's wrong for someone to react to the reputation and address the reports of crime we hear about. As those of us who live here in Durham have found out after some time of living here, the rumors are far worse than the reality and even the reality is improving as the community within neighborhoods become more active against crime. In three years, I have seen change. But we are not there... yet.
I have written this before, but the perception of widespread crime here will not be quelled by our city police department. It will be quelled by the individuals that make up each and every community. And if the majority of community members do nothing to change that perception and show signs of helplessness against the issue, then the rep will live on and those making a habit of committing such crimes will seize the advantage and encourage its prevalence.
Fortunately, I think Durham has enough active individuals now to draw various community members closer together and take a stand against crime and any prevalent perceptions. Unfortunately, I think from what I've read, that there is still enough people who choose to turn their head, not get involved or worse yet, accept crime as a way of life (yes, crime happens everywhere... but we must never accept it).
Sure, Charleton Dude is opinionated, openly favors Cary and doesn't appear to care for Durham much. But I think it's okay that he states his case against Durham. It only means that we just need to be a little more convincing about what we think is great about Durham. And if we do not argue the perceptions with facts, then those perceptions become facts in the eye of the beholder. So let's just stop fighting people about what they think is truth, and dazzle them with what IS truth (unless the truth is the perception they speak and, if so, then we speak how we're improving that perception). I just think we try to repel all that's negatively thrown around about Durham rather than embrace what is generally said, address the issue properly, and discuss factually what's being done the improve the negative while highlighting the positives of what this city has to offer.
No matter what, any time someone brings up Durham is an opportunity to brag about it. So, why not address our shortcomings and let's just brag about Durham! Yes?
This may be the best post I have ever read on CD. Great job and thank you for your time writing this.
The OP asked if Durham is less safe than Raleigh or Cary. The stats say that Durham is less safe than Cary. It is not me stating it and people can reason why or why not, but no one needs to get upset about an honest answer to the question.
I have personal experience in Durham and I constantly state how much Durham has to offer and that my favorite section of Durham is SW Durham. Answering a direct set of questions with accurate information does not make one a Durham basher. I would be dishonest if I told the OP that Durham is safer than Cary. It is not and that was their question. I always state the overall Durham crime numbers are skewed by pockets of higher crime that DO NOT exist to that degree in most parts. There really is not anything to debate on the subject and CaliBoy did a great job explaining the reality of the situation.
Just like the southern part of Raleigh has the reputation for more crime, more rentals and less desirable of an area (as was noted in a previous thread), Durham has a similar reputation to overcome. From the people on this forum, I have come to learn that Durham IS getting better. I have seen prices in certain parts of Durham go up in value, while other parts, not so much. But that is similar in other areas, as well.
There are certainly parts of Raleigh that have seen little appreciation in the past.
Each city/town has desirable areas and less desirable areas.
However, let me say that in the 35 years that I have lived in North Raleigh and Cary, I have NEVER heard a gunshot and I'll agree with Caliboy that that is not something to be taken lightly. I hope no matter where you live that if you hear gunshots, you will dial 911 as fast as you can. Perhaps you can save a life.
Vicki
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