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That doesn't make the decent woman his second choice, that makes her the number one choice at that stage of his life. I'm cool with it.
Men don't think that way. Men view themselves as the same person through their whole life. I may be wrong, but I hear women talk about "oh, I used to be this kind of girl" (insert stereotype description). Ok, so you used to be stupid, but now you're not? What you want NOW is supposed to make it okay that you ignored me before?
My question to this train of thought is: okay it's been 10 years and now you realize I'm a great guy and that I could be a great husband to you and father to your children someday.....what's to say you won't change your mind again in 1, 5, 10, 20 years?
This one I can backup with science: see U.S. Divorce Rate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncos Quarterback
Necessary, but not sufficient. They still have to be attracted to you physically. Doesn't mean they don't like well-written messages.
To all who complain about the how they keep running into bad men and women, the common denominator is you. Think about it.
THIS is something that bothers me. I can see this two ways.
1. You don't have a valid argument so you're just offering pointless and hollow advice without really doing anything but trying to create self doubt.
2. You think people should change and become something they are not only to cater to the desires of others, and you're assuming that 'something is wrong with them' because they're struggling in a socially awkward environment that has lost the meaning of marriage, family, and respect?
So what do you hope to accomplish with making that statement? Are you suggesting the person change? What about the statement 'be yourself'? Many offer the same worthless and non-creative advice statement all the time, doesn't your statement conflict? You're suggesting the person who has trouble finding a decent woman to date, marry, and stay with him should change who he is and pretend to be someone he's not?
All things aside from improving your career, your physical health, and your social life as things people should do for THEMSELVES anyway, what is it we're supposed to do differently?
Here's a chance to redeem yourself. What exactly should we "common denominators" do to change? I'm really really curious....
That doesn't make the decent woman his second choice, that makes her the number one choice at that stage of his life. I'm cool with it.
Hi Mikala,
I'm all for individual choice and glad that works for you.
I have a hard time believing a man who dated party girls, strippers and hookers while rejecting decent girls in his youth really believes the decent girl is his first choice later in life, and is not simply marrying her to meet his own "good mother, nice family" motives. But, what happens when he misses the "benefits" from the girls in the past?
The same goes for a woman who dates players, thugs or bad boys while rejecting decent guys, all of a sudden magically decides a decent guy is her first choice. Maybe he's first choice for her marriage and family needs the bad boys aren't willing or able to provide. But, what happens once the kids are out of the house or she misses the excitement from the guys in the past?
I'm all for individual choice and glad that works for you.
I have a hard time believing a man who dated party girls, strippers and hookers while rejecting decent girls in his youth really believes the decent girl is his first choice later in life, and is not simply doing so to meet his own motives. But, what happens when he misses the "benefits" from the girls in the past?
The same goes for a woman who dates players, thugs or bad boys while rejecting decent guys, all of a sudden magically decides a decent guy is her first choice. Maybe he's first choice for her marriage and family needs the bad boys aren't willing or able to provide. But, what happens once the kids are out of the house or she misses the excitement from the guys in the past?
So, in your universe people never grow or mature? It's not that much different than driving a muscle car and then deciding that you want something safer or less flashy. Or living in the city with roommates and later choosing to buy a house with a yard. Or spending your Saturday nights out barhopping and growing to prefer staying in watching movies and finishing your laundry. What I, or anyone, wanted when they were 22 shouldn't necessarily be held against them 10 years down the road.
Men don't think that way. Men view themselves as the same person through their whole life. I may be wrong, but I hear women talk about "oh, I used to be this kind of girl" (insert stereotype description). Ok, so you used to be stupid, but now you're not? What you want NOW is supposed to make it okay that you ignored me before?
My question to this train of thought is: okay it's been 10 years and now you realize I'm a great guy and that I could be a great husband to you and father to your children someday.....what's to say you won't change your mind again in 1, 5, 10, 20 years?
This one I can backup with science: see U.S. Divorce Rate
THIS is something that bothers me. I can see this two ways.
1. You don't have a valid argument so you're just offering pointless and hollow advice without really doing anything but trying to create self doubt.
2. You think people should change and become something they are not only to cater to the desires of others, and you're assuming that 'something is wrong with them' because they're struggling in a socially awkward environment that has lost the meaning of marriage, family, and respect?
So what do you hope to accomplish with making that statement? Are you suggesting the person change? What about the statement 'be yourself'? Many offer the same worthless and non-creative advice statement all the time, doesn't your statement conflict? You're suggesting the person who has trouble finding a decent woman to date, marry, and stay with him should change who he is and pretend to be someone he's not?
All things aside from improving your career, your physical health, and your social life as things people should do for THEMSELVES anyway, what is it we're supposed to do differently?
Here's a chance to redeem yourself. What exactly should we "common denominators" do to change? I'm really really curious....
You're on it today, cdubs. Some aren't going to like your "stupid" reference, but these are very valid points and can fit both men and women.
For people whose "type" changes over the years, this is yet another reason to avoid getting married to someone who wanted the "negative types" in their younger years, since it's too much of a risk of it changing back. It's more safe to marry someone who always saw your type as their first choice.
Also, it's nice to see the cliche' advice finally being challenged. What's funny is you are told to "be yourself", and you're challenged for your voicemail where you were "being yourself".
So, in your universe people never grow or mature? It's not that much different than driving a muscle car and then deciding that you want something safer or less flashy. Or living in the city with roommates and later choosing to buy a house with a yard. Or spending your Saturday nights out barhopping and growing to prefer staying in watching movies and finishing your laundry. What I, or anyone, wanted when they were 22 shouldn't necessarily be held against them 10 years down the road.
Hi fleetiebelle,
The issue here is minimizing RISK. Perfection doesn't exist, but it's more safe to marry someone who always preferred you as their type. Why take the chance with someone who rejected a decent person in their youth for a "negative type"? They could revert back to their young, instinctual attraction for "negative types" once they have a midlife crisis, the kids are out of the house, or the relationship has issues.
I understand your analogies, but my point is in regards to love and attraction, since people seem to have less control over these things.
Additionally, I'm framing my comments in reference to the men in this thread who say they have always been decent guys. If two negative types want to marry each other after maturing, I'm 100% fine with that. However, I don't feel men or women who have always been decent should have to accept "reformed people" for the risks outlined above.
I'm somewhat dumbfounded at the opinion that people don't change, and particularly that men don't.
I know guys that used to party who are now Pastor's, and corporate beasts who will now forgo the office to spend time with their children.
I was a studious child morphed into total party girl till my mid 20s, and then was a dedicated wife and homemaker for 18 years, I then turned into a total party girl again (singing, dancing), then settled down in domestic bliss for awhile....
Most people I know have changed a LOT over their lives....
I'm somewhat dumbfounded at the opinion that people don't change, and particularly that men don't.
I know guys that used to party who are now Pastor's, and corporate beasts who will now forgo the office to spend time with their children.
I was a studious child morphed into total party girl till my mid 20s, and then was a dedicated wife and homemaker for 18 years, I then turned into a total party girl again (singing, dancing), then settled down in domestic bliss for awhile....
Most people I know have changed a LOT over their lives....
I wonder if that is a (perhaps the) major factor in the divorce rate? (Not necessarily yours, if you are divorced, but in general.)
I was married at 22 and acknowledge that I have grown up and matured over the last 10+ years. I am not the same person I was then, but I am not that different either. I don't know whether my values have changed all that much. My husband has changed too. I guess some people grow together and others grow apart.
I'm also not presuming that because we're closing in on our 16th anniversary that we're "home free." People divorce after 18, 20, 25 years ... my aunt and uncle divorced after 28 years of marriage. There is no finish line.
I'm somewhat dumbfounded at the opinion that people don't change, and particularly that men don't.
I know guys that used to party who are now Pastor's, and corporate beasts who will now forgo the office to spend time with their children.
I was a studious child morphed into total party girl till my mid 20s, and then was a dedicated wife and homemaker for 18 years, I then turned into a total party girl again (singing, dancing), then settled down in domestic bliss for awhile....
Most people I know have changed a LOT over their lives....
I wish I had more time to contribute, but I'm at work. I just wanted to mention that I agree. Further, as highlighted at a party recently, my dh and I are still close with the crew we were raging with 15 years ago. We partied pretty hard (raves, events, etc) and lots of travelling. Now, one by one we're all getting married off, having kids, etc. We all have careers, own homes or condos, etc. These people were fabulous 15 years ago, and they're fabulous today. We just choose not to have the martini's when we meet for dinner, prefer the gym on a regular basis to dancing as a form of excerise, and are concerned about our 401ks so we skip the travelling.
To me, the transition has been quite natural and I certainly don't regret having a darn good time through out my 20s. Ok, lunch is over!
I wonder if that is a (perhaps the) major factor in the divorce rate? (Not necessarily yours, if you are divorced, but in general.)
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I've never been divorced, I was widowed.
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