I hunt animals for meat and sport. Dealbreaker? (emotionally, fighting, Alaska)

[KingSamme]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

I agree with you on a fundamental basis, but surely you realize that your selflessness goes against basic biology. True self-sacrifice is very rare in any animal. You cannot reasonably expect most animals, including humans, to feel that way.

I am not selfless. No one is. Every action we do we do for ourselves.

That being said, I don't see what's the sacrifice here.

The primary reason why I'm against meat eating is because, simply put, it's stupid.

I just think that killing a living being so that we can eat its meat which is unhealthy for us and (usually) damage the environment in the process is stupid. And I am among the ones who are going to pay for this. I am the one who's going to pay for your unhealthiness, directly or indirectly. I am the one who's going to suffer the consequences of the environmental damage caused by your eating meat. And why should I or anyone else have to deal with these higher costs and discomfort? Because you can't live without the taste of meat? That's just ridiculous. We don't live in isolated worlds, we live in societies. And in societies, actions have consequences. This is both the biggest weakness and the biggest strength of a society; the welfare of the individual is paramount for the welfare of society.

There's also the secondary argument which is the ethical and logical one. Who gave us the right to choose whether other animals should live or die? We are going to kill living beings during our lives and that is unavoidable, but shouldn't we at least try not to kill other animals needlessly? Why should we have to raise and kill animals for the sole purpose of giving us a little pleasure? How would us humans feel if an alien race far, far more intelligent than us, did the same to us because they thought we were too stupid to be important? Sure, it's not the most likely thing to happen, but aren't we supposed to treat others like we want to be treated? Does the "golden rule" apply when dealing with humans?

It is natural for man to eat meat.

It's only natural if it's necessary for our survival. Just because we can eat meat, doesn't mean we have to. There are a lot of things that are natural that we don't do anymore. We have bathrooms, for example.

I value compassion and avoidance of suffering, and I believe that people can eat meat humanely. (I choose not to.)

Again, I don't see what's humane about killing an animal when it's not necessary for your survival.

Hunting can accomplish two things: obtain food and bring pleasure. It's the second one that might bother me, because hunters' motives obviously have a wide span. Deliberate killing brings me nothing but sadness, so I cannot relate to someone who does it for pleasure.

I don't think they are different at all. Killing for meat only because you like its taste is no different than killing because you like killing.

I do not think of them as bad people, though, unless they are needlessly cruel, destructive, or wasteful.

Me neither.



The bottom line is this: eating meat or animal products is not only unnecessary, but recent studies have shown it's dangerous. Many of the myths we have been brainwashed into believing, such as that milk is good for our bones (the exact opposite is true), that we need to eat meat for protein (not true), or that cholesterol is good, have been debunked. The meat and dairy industry are like the tobacco industry, doing whatever they can to suppress scientific information because their finances are at stake.
Therefore, I believe that eating meat is unethical, considering the effects it has on us, the environment, and obviously the animals themselves.

[yayoi]

The environment argument is hollow because most of us contribute to the destruction of it. We don't have to drive cars, type on computers, buy smartphones, live in permanent dwellings, buy vegetables from the supermarket, use electricity, watch tvs etc..

I find it amusing when vegetarians/vegans preach about the environmental impact of meat eaters all the while typing on their computers, laptops, tablets or what have you. If they care about the environment so much then they would live off of the grid.

A meat eater who lives off of the grid will have less of an environmental impact than a vegan who has to drive 20 miles just to get to a Whole Foods.

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally Posted by yayoi

The environment argument is hollow because most of us contribute to the destruction of it. We don't have to drive cars, type on computers, buy smartphones, live in permanent dwellings, buy vegetables from the supermarket, use electricity, watch tvs etc..

I find it amusing when vegetarians/vegans preach about the environmental impact of meat eaters all the while typing on their computers, laptops, tablets or what have you. If they care about the environment so much, then they would live off of the grid.

A meat eater who lives off of the grid will have less of an environmental impact than a vegan who has to drive 20 miles just to get to a Whole Foods.

There is the kicker as our day to day amenities is not necessary for our survival.

[2mares]

I am among the ones who are going to pay for this. I am the one who's going to pay for your unhealthiness, directly or indirectly. I am the one who's going to suffer the consequences of the environmental damage caused by your eating meat.

I am just curious as to how you believe you are ever going to pay for any of my medical expenses. I eat meat, I eat wild game. I have never had any health issue related to my consumption of meat. I don’t know of any person receiving a disability payment due to eating meat.

I would also like to know what environmental consquences you are suffering from my meat consumption? The deforestation, air and water pollution I see is directly related to other aspects of human behavior.

After reading some of this crap I know that this anti-meat eating attitude would definately be a deal breaker for me.

[Djuna]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

I agree with you on a fundamental basis, but surely you realize that your selflessness goes against basic biology. True self-sacrifice is very rare in any animal. You cannot reasonably expect most animals, including humans, to feel that way.

But we're talking about dating, not even the ethics of eating meat, really. The ethics of hunting are different, I feel. It is natural for man to eat meat. I value compassion and avoidance of suffering, and I believe that people can eat meat humanely. (I choose not to.) Hunting can accomplish two things: obtain food and bring pleasure. It's the second one that might bother me, because hunters' motives obviously have a wide span. Deliberate killing brings me nothing but sadness, so I cannot relate to someone who does it for pleasure. I do not think of them as bad people, though, unless they are needlessly cruel, destructive, or wasteful.

I completely agree with you. I am a meat eater but if i had to kill animals for my food directly I could not do it. My husband and I can't even kill mice in our house. Hubby sets Have a Heart traps then lets them go. Last year we caught 3 in the winter time and he wouldn't let them out because it was too cold and snowy so he bought a little cage and they lived in that quite happily until the spring.

I view killing of animals for sport as a cruel and evil thing personally. It takes a particular type of person to take the life of an animal for the fun of it. It's almost psychopathic really. In fact children who kill animals quite often end up mentally insane.

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally Posted by Djuna

I view killing of animals for sport as a cruel and evil thing personally. It takes a particular type of person to take the life of an animal for the fun of it. It's almost psychopathic really. In fact children who kill animals quite often end up mentally insane.

Psychopathic? I must disagree here because I'm assuming that you feel that someone who will hunt for sport (like me for example as I hunt for sport on occasion) is insane? If you really believe that hunters are that schizoid and anti-social then you need to re-evaluate your opinion.

I hunt for food and sport and I'll stress that when I do hunt for sport. I take the head for a trophy and the rest of the fresh meat is donated. Now are you that emotionally attached to animals to not be able to kill them under any circumstance? I take great pleasure in killing animals. I value animals as much if not more than humans (just shows how much I value people I guess).

[Djuna]

Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket

Psychopathic? I must disagree here because I'm assuming that you feel that someone who will hunt for sport (like me for example as I hunt for sport on occasion) is insane? If you really believe that hunters are that schizoid and anti-social then you need to re-evaluate your opinion.

I hunt for food and sport and I'll stress that when I do hunt for sport. I take the head for a trophy and the rest of the fresh meat is donated. Now are you that emotionally attached to animals to not be able to kill them under any circumstance? I take great pleasure in killing animals. I value animals as much if not more than humans (just shows how much I value people I guess).

I reserve my right to consider people who kill animals as a particular type. I do not mix with these types. It disgusts me.

[KingSamme]

Originally Posted by yayoi

The environment argument is hollow because most of us contribute to the destruction of it. We don't have to drive cars, type on computers, buy smartphones, live in permanent dwellings, buy vegetables from the supermarket, use electricity, watch tvs etc..

I find it amusing when vegetarians/vegans preach about the environmental impact of meat eaters all the while typing on their computers, laptops, tablets or what have you. If they care about the environment so much then they would live off of the grid.

A meat eater who lives off of the grid will have less of an environmental impact than a vegan who has to drive 20 miles just to get to a Whole Foods.

So what is your argument exactly? We damage the environment anyway so let's not do anything about it? Not eating meat is a lot easier than giving up on technology and less harmful to our scientific progress, and you know it. And of course we should do what we can to save electricity, recycle, drive greener cars etc.

The meat industry causes more pollution than the world's transportation system. There is simply no reason to eat meat.

Originally Posted by 2mares

I am just curious as to how you believe you are ever going to pay for any of my medical expenses. I eat meat, I eat wild game. I have never had any health issue related to my consumption of meat.

Maybe you don't know, or maybe you don't know that whatever diseases you got, if any, were caused or aggravated by the consumption of meat.

I don’t know of any person receiving a disability payment due to eating meat.

Plenty of people get sick (high cholesterol, diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis etc.) in part because they eat animal products. Somebody will have to pay for their medical care. Whether it's in the form of higher medical premiums or higher public healthcare spending, the burden falls on all of us.

I would also like to know what environmental consequences you are suffering from my meat consumption?

Hunting and locally produced meat is insufficient to feed everyone in developed countries, let alone the rest of the world. The demand for meat is so high that the only way to meet it is through environmentally destructive methods. While you as an individual may not contribute much to the environmental damage in this regard, most meat eaters do.

Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket

I take great pleasure in killing animals. I value animals as much if not more than humans (just shows how much I value people I guess).

That does sound like a symptom of something.

[2mares]

[quote=KingSamme;26567851]

Maybe you don't know, or maybe you don't know that whatever diseases you got, if any, were caused or aggravated by the consumption of meat.

Plenty of people get sick (high cholesterol, diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis etc.) in part because they eat animal products. Somebody will have to pay for their medical care. Whether it's in the form of higher medical premiums or higher public healthcare spending, the burden falls on all of us.

And diseases people get are aggravated by eating sugar, starches, smoking, drinking, exposure to carceiogens or strictly genetic. Im dont see how you can blame eating chicken on any of the above deseases. I pay my own insurance premiums and no way will that expense be passed on to you. The amount is based only on those ppl in my group.

Hunting and locally produced meat is insufficient to feed everyone in developed countries, let alone the rest of the world. The demand for meat is so high that the only way to meet it is through environmentally destructive methods. While you as an individual may not contribute much to the environmental damage in this regard, most meat eaters do.

So by "meat eaters are destroying the environment" what your really against is deforestation of the rainforest for the purpose of raising livestock in countries like Brazil. Deforestation within the US is done for timber not feeding cattle. While I appreciate your concern for the environment I feel your stretching it a bit with the meat eating issue.

[Baldrick]

By the way... What happened to the original thread?