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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuttree
Not 100% socially constructed? Let's see, pretty much EVERY SINGLE society in the history of man has come up with the woman is homemaker, cooker, cleaner, child reaiser and man is hunter, gatherer, farmer, whatever roles. There are exceptions, but they are very few. There are numerous practical reasons for this, but I think it's gone on so long it's sort of ingrained in people evolutionarily. At the very least, the reasons for the split are differences in the genders and what they can do which are part of the human species (and some other species).
This idea of 'women as the homemaker' is a fairly modern invention. It was actually a LUXURY for women to be able to spend all their time at home just pottering around the house and looking after kids (not saying it was easy). In the past and now in many cultures, women have to do similar work to men, a lot of it very physical.
I also laughed at the 'farmer' for men, because in many parts of the world like Asia and Africa women do the bulk of the agricultural farming work. Planting rice, hacking corn or picking tea leaves for instance.
Hmmm, I don't really see it. Maybe society in general is getting coarser (not necessarily more masculine, just meaner) and women in general are following that. I think, in some ways, we as a society are becoming more animalistic despite our technology. Especially in a place like Australia, go out on a weekend night and see the 'animals' screaming, fighting, being controlled by their base desires. If that's what you mean by 'feminine' I think we apes might naturally not be as 'cultivated' as you hope. Women aren't really these nice little old 'Little women' type characters who are softly spoken and blush if you talk about sex. THAT is the societal imposition. Women have always been capable of being bawdy, classless, crude, lewd, I think Western society has implanted this 'virginal mother' myth into many men who put women on pedestals.
In some superficial ways women are actually encouraged to be more 'feminine', at least in how they look.
I hope you fix your quote because it was not 2mares who said that.
Anyhow, I agree. Although I've heard it called the Madonna/w-h-o-r-e myth implemented by men, via the male psyche and his religion, for women. And I don't think it has anything to do with putting women on pedestals, but mass mental and/or emotional illness.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by donniedarko
I also find that people are quicker to hate men. How many women are executed by the state? Not very many. If a woman does a horrific crime, in most cases, people will blame it on a man who abused her or on her mental health. Of course there are exceptions, such as Casey Anthony where pretty much everyone wanted to throw a stone. But I definitely think people are more quick to write off men as being 'creepy' or 'evil'.If a woman abuses her boyfriend or husband people will presume the man deserves it for whatever reason, and will demonize the man if they try to defend themselves in any way. On the other hand, I do think people tend to look down on women for defending themselves as well, but men being abused by women are judged even more harshly.
I started a thread 'is it easier to hate men?' but the more I think about it, I think people are becoming more harsh towards women too as they're seen as less 'innocent' as before, not that society has been particularly lenient on women (e.g. witch trials). Definitely agree with the second part, society just assumes it's the 'big bad man's' fault.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I hope you fix your quote because it was not 2mares who said that.
Anyhow, I agree. Although I've heard it called the Madonna/w-h-o-r-e myth implemented by men, via the male psyche and his religion, for women. And I don't think it has anything to do with putting women on pedestals, but mass mental and/or emotional illness.
The roots of chastity and modesty have a dark side. Protecting a woman's 'honour' was more about protecting the tribe or the clan's honour and keeping them 'pure.' Women who disobeyed were castigated or even executed, it wasn't about respecting their personhood but about ensuring that the clan was not corrupted by foreign male seed. On the other hand, it was probably seen as a success if a male from the tribe went out and impregnated a female from another tribe, because it would spread that tribe's genetic stock. It all goes back to group theory in evolution.
The roots of chastity and modesty have a dark side. Protecting a woman's 'honour' was more about protecting the tribe or the clan's honour and keeping them 'pure.' Women who disobeyed were castigated or even executed, it wasn't about respecting their personhood but about ensuring that the clan was not corrupted by foreign male seed. On the other hand, it was probably seen as a success if a male from the tribe went out and impregnated a female from another tribe, because it would spread that tribe's genetic stock. It all goes back to group theory in evolution.
That's an interesting explanation and it makes sense to me, although people clearly get confused when they assume it as innate nature. It's not.
I started a thread 'is it easier to hate men?' but the more I think about it, I think people are becoming more harsh towards women too as they're seen as less 'innocent' as before, not that society has been particularly lenient on women (e.g. witch trials). Definitely agree with the second part, society just assumes it's the 'big bad man's' fault.
That's a good point. I think humans are just judgmental period, but it takes a lot more insanity on a woman's part before they're branded with the creep label. Though the older a woman gets, the more quickly people are willing to brand them creepy. Same with older men actually.
I believe in gender roles. Most people reflexively ascribe to them. Even in the 21st century, there are certain expectations of men and women. I will say that, on the alpha-beta spectrum, a man who lies too far away from the alpha endpoint and the woman who lies too far away from the beta endpoint are not well-received. Similarly, I think that a man who is 100% alpha (beats his chest) and a woman who is 100% beta (ER-worthy panic attack upon seeing a spider) are not the norm. Of all places, we had this discussion in a speech communications class during freshman year of college.
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