Question for all you self proclaimed "educated" women (family, college)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And for the men that date self-proclaimed "successful" women. One of my pet-peeves is the unnecessary corporate jargon aka business or intellectual talk. Having grown up in the NY/NJ area around a lot of blue collar workers but having been around the federal government for the past 20 years, I have been much more dynamic in language. When I am with my buddies, it's just regular talk. I also know when to turn it down using slang and when to turn it up depending on the situation. But having moved to the DC area, where there are so many educated people, it is often that I run into people, even on weekends outside of work, that continue speaking to me as if I were their office co-worker on the clock. I am extremely good at reading people and language and so whenever I get the endless corporate jargon from women, I easily get turned off. I don't even pursue them especially when the women start with the "I'm an educated independent women" speech. These are the types that have been so independent that they are clueless when it comes to speaking with men. But, it's not that I am intimidated by educated women but it's the sense of "I can do it all and don't need a man", that I simply can't jive with.
But for some reason after meeting someone on tinder, I decided to take another chance. Her profile starts with "I am an educated, self-sufficient, and driven young woman..... and ends of with my ideal mate will be similarly educated and passionate". I sort of joked with her regarding her corporate talk and here is how she responded:
Now, there is nothing wrong with that but I just know from experience that she most likely will not shut it off and I am not like these political nuts. I will probably not pursue it but just out of curiosity, not asking for advice, do you women ever catch yourself with this unnecessary corporate talk? And men, how do you deal with these types? Again, I am not asking for advice, just curious to see how other people see it.
No advice here, but I'll tell you how I see it.
First off, there are women, and then there are resentful women who just have a chip on their shoulder because "my penis is bigger than any man's", and then there are women who really have learned the hard way to be a bit defensive.
With regard to that -- hey, people are people so whatcha gonna do? There's NO SUCH THING as good men or good women, there's only good and bad people, period. When you find good ones, stick around. When you find bad ones, don't get bent out of shape, just move on. Not everybody likes everybody else and that's a fact. Life is too short to waste time with them.
As for the "corporate talk" in the DC area...
Some people put on a show.
Some people really just talk that way, it's habitual and it's part of who they really are.
Once more, whatcha gonna do?
As for the woman herself and her questions regarding whether you've ever dated a black woman...
In this case I cannot make any judgment call which is do-all, be-all, end-all; but I will say that black women who are successful in the business or corporate world have a LOT to deal with, and in my experience it quite understandably takes some time for them to lower their guard. Some of them never do, not ever. Others get past it.
One thing you've got to understand with a lot of black women who are educated and who pursue success is that they're actually fighting an uphill battle which consists not only of vying for success (an uphill battle for anyone) but doing so against the grain of general black culture.
I just know someone will leap on that, suggesting I'm saying black culture is generally unsuccessful. I'm not saying that -- BUT...
When a black man pursues success, he is to be admired per the social purview. It is wrong and silly to say he is "rising above his culture", when in fact he's just a good man trying to do a good job, and that should be the end of it. So he's both insulted and admired, all at once, sort of a back-handed compliment.
When a black woman pursues success in most regions -- and believe me, regionality DOES come into play heavily -- she is seen as more "pragmatic to the point of ruthlessness". Black women have been assigned this sort of televised, pre-scripted larger-than-life embodiment. They are supposed to be overtly-voluptuous, filled with head-twirling-on-neck attitude, hyper-sexualized yet bluntly discerning even to the point of a callous meanness -- and that's just ridiculous!
Unfortunately, even many black men have assigned this quality. It's accepted among lower economic classes, put on as a ready display; and the moment a black woman wants to rise above it, she's "CHASING MONEY", not just a good woman trying to do a good job.
When a black man pursues an interracial relationship, he's assigned the ridiculous status of either "achieving status" OR (dear God, shaking my head) "preying on white women". For all that, it's still not only more accepted but gaining ground as a "norm".
When a black woman shows interest in an interracial relationship she's assigned these AND lambasted by other blacks as a "self-hater" and a "race-hater" and "betraying her own". And these never seem to go away for her.
Black women who have experienced this have also generally experienced something which comes to seem to them less men of other races being genuinely interested in them AS A PERSON, AS A COMPANION, but more "ooooo, the darker the berry the sweeter the juice". They find men interested in them sexually, and NO ONE intelligent wants to be "the forbidden fruit" instead of a beloved partner or companion.
So they have a LOT of crap to deal with, and when a man of another race shows interest then while it's presumptive on the part of the black woman to believe that man is showing misguided interest rather than genuine, experience has often taught them to approach with caution.
Why?
Because they may catch disappointment from the man; they likely WILL catch some hell from their friends and family, and they're already coping with an assigned image from society that tries to pigeon-hole who they are as a person in a very graphic way.
I'd be cautious too, and if I'd seen enough of it I'd be pretty tight-lipped and blunt in my wariness.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,700 posts, read 41,763,058 times
Reputation: 41381
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
You can always look at it that way. You can always look at someone saying they don't need you as some kind of an insult. However, you could also look at it is they don't need you, but they really really want you.
And I'd much rather be wanted then needed. People who need to be needed are extremely insecure at the core.
I really disagree with your last sentence. Once you enter and establish a long-term relationship, your soul gets tied so much that there is this sense of need for their presence. Not a desperate thirsty need but a tie which will be devastated if broken. Hell just look what look what happened to Doug Flutie's parents on Wednesday.
I'm going to suspect that she isn't interested in a relationship where she has to pretend to be stupid just to protect the man's ego.
Right off the starting line, she is screening for a partner who can understand basic English. There's no point in continuing a conversation with anyone who can't hold a conversation. You, OP, don't want a woman who can speak and she doesn't want a man who can't speak, so there is no reason to continue past the first few notes.
I'm in D.C. too, but I really don't see this as a problem. Most of the women I dated last year prior to meeting my now G/F were similar to this. My G/F works in a pretty high-pressure position supervising a number of people, and obviously she didn't reach that level by not being very intelligent and articulate. It sounds to me like you're just choosing women that you're not really compatible with.
OP, dude... I really, in a way, get and agree with you.
I hate pretense, and I grew up in Northern VA. Part of what you're feeling is the East Coast defensiveness against all things "fake." Someone tells you to have a nice day. They don't know you. Do they really care what kind of day you're having, or are they just making noise? *sigh* Be real or GTFO. I grew up with that. Then I moved to the midwest, and then to the west, and I did learn some casual friendliness and now I tell people to have a nice day...and I actually mean it!
But I work in an office, and we have a revoltingly bubbly new supervisor who looks all punk rock with her tattoos and her fashion, but she opens her mouth and the words that come out, to say nothing of the tone, just fill me with violent urges. She is the one who acts absolutely JAZZED about the company training, meetings, and motivational activity weeks. She says lots of fancy words that MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. She's the perfect illustration of someone who makes a lot of money to serve absolutely no real purpose of accomplishing anything useful whatsoever. "I wanted to reach out, make sure we're all on the same page, to leverage the synergy of the team as we drill down going forward." WHAT??? Just...stop...let me go back to my desk...I have work to do. Real actual work. I honestly think that politicians and corporate shills like this are parasites upon society and the economy. Highly paid talking heads.
Now, that said...the problem isn't with women being smart, educated, successful, or independent. It's about whether any of that, or the way they act, is REAL or just a persona that is meaningless? (In my opinion.)
Instead of saying that I'm educated or intelligent, I will say that I like intelligent and creative company. That I enjoy such hobbies as doing taxes and building computers, and I'm an artist and a nerd. That paints a more colorful, and REAL picture of me. Intelligent? What does that even mean? A person could be intelligent and interesting, or intelligent and boring! Or think they're intelligent, but actually be pretty average or even stupid! Who starts a profile, with, "Hey. I'm kind of dumb." ??
Strong? Well in my case, that means that life has thrown some stuff at me...I'm not pristine or innocent, but I can handle my sh**. I don't fly into hysterics when the going gets tough. I have survived some hardships and have some scars to show for it, and due to that, I appreciate what I've got.
Independent? Means I don't want to live with you, sleep in the same bed as you, or make a family with you. My goals in dating are companionship on a voluntary basis, not because our lives are so firmly stuck together that we cannot survive apart. I can support myself and don't want your money. I'm fine with going dutch.
Now if a guy is wanting to find a Mommy for his Barbie Dream House, then of course he should avoid "Strong, Independent Women (TM)." All a matter of personal priorities.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,700 posts, read 41,763,058 times
Reputation: 41381
Quote:
Originally Posted by david0966
I'm in D.C. too, but I really don't see this as a problem. Most of the women I dated last year prior to meeting my now G/F were similar to this. My G/F works in a pretty high-pressure position supervising a number of people, and obviously she didn't reach that level by not being very intelligent and articulate. It sounds to me like you're just choosing women that you're not really compatible with.
I've gotten observations when I've gone to other parts of the country that I sound like I have a lot of education when I speak. I think living here and having a graduate education naturally you pick up the ideas you learn here as a part of your image and one thing I've had drilled into me is the more educated you sound, more positive people will flock to you.
I've gotten observations when I've gone to other parts of the country that I sound like I have a lot of education when I speak. I think living here and having a graduate education naturally you pick up the ideas you learn here as a part of your image and one thing I've had drilled into me is the more educated you sound, more positive people will flock to you.
I'm in the opposite camp...I'm so tired of this whole twitterized jargon in which people speak and write nowadays. It's pathetic. I could see if an adult is writing to a child or something...then, yeah, you would want to consider your audience and simplify your statement. But you have grown men and women who have so dumbed down their grammar nowadays, that if you write a statement in any kind of a creative-writing style with more than 140 characters, or one that isnt chock full of abbreviations, acronyms and/or ebonics, people start accusing you of trying to sound "fancy" (let them tell it).
I definitely get the whole economy of language thing, but our short snippet/sound bite, twitterized, ADD society has gotten to where it can't stand having to pay attention to anything for more than a few seconds. So when you write in the creative writing style that most were taught as children, people act like you're doing the most, just for trying to communicate thoroughly. And then they hit you with some lame cliche about trying to "sound smart". But yeah, count me in the camp of people who like it when people at least make the effort to write both clearly (doesn't have to be "fancy") and thoroughly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
I'm going to suspect that she isn't interested in a relationship where she has to pretend to be stupid just to protect the man's ego.
Right off the starting line, she is screening for a partner who can understand basic English. There's no point in continuing a conversation with anyone who can't hold a conversation. You, OP, don't want a woman who can speak and she doesn't want a man who can't speak, so there is no reason to continue past the first few notes.
What you are saying is true, BUT black women (or any women) can't complain if it puts off potential suitors. Men would like to think they can provide something to a woman, if not financially, then emotionally. That attitude just says you stupid men we don't need you, you all are sorry.
Welp, when men don't give us any reason to feel that we can rely on them, you can't expect us to.
I get that you are writing this from a male perspective but men also do this 'corporate' talk thing as well, I think it's just being professional, and it's fine and dandy at work, but on my off time I want to talk to someone on a more casual basis, I also don't want to talk to someone who identifies too much with their job title or work position. Boring as hell, we're not some little drones that all we can talk about is work, or talk about promotions or life accomplishments, I think some people get so lost in all of that stuff that they actually start to believe that it really matters in the long run.
Yeah, having goals and moving ahead and being productive in life is good, but at the end of the day, YOU are not your job and I've got a million other things I'd like to talk about other than work.
This phenomena is probably more seen in the 20's and 30's, usually when you are older you've sorta been there done that and can be bored by it.
My humble opinion as always.
Last edited by Chowhound; 11-19-2015 at 09:47 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
you stupid men we don't need you, you all are sorry.
