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I'm trying to wrap my head around your position, cell jin, it's honestly a bit of a struggle. But I wonder if I'm getting any closer to "getting it"...
So at one point I made some remark about men finding teen women (hopefully legal age ones) very attractive, I think we'd just watched Lolita and we were discussing it, and he responded to something in that flavor of talk, with, "I think that is ALL men." Implying that for all or most or at least some very significant number of men, if they could wave a magic wand and have a partner who looks peak hotness to their eyeballs, she'd be probably looking like a 16-19 year old.
And frankly from a ton of guys I've heard from, looks are the first and most significant factor of attraction, though we do have men who are exceptions to that and who will say that intellect and charisma and other things matter a lot.
My boyfriend was implying that even if men don't want to admit it (and likely wouldn't act on it, for practical reasons), at any age they'd like to be poinking a kid. That really put me off, to be honest, but I won't get all into it.
You seem to be implying that it's odd, that as a woman grows older, the age range she finds attractive could shift. You appear to be saying that no, in fact, she's just settling for who she is "supposed to" like but really each of us has a fixed ideal (as men do?) of what we consider attractive. No?
Are you trying to make it less unacceptable for a man to admire 18 year old girls at 30, by saying that women's attraction probably operates the same way, only we are conditioned to lie about it? Or am I completely misreading your line of questioning?
Maybe if you spelled out your theory instead of tiptoeing around it with inquiries and implications, that might help?
Well, the part about most men finding teen girls most attractive is not accurate. Even guys in their teens would say girls in their 20s are hotter.
My theory is essentially that when it comes to purely physical attraction, women are generally not attracted to men in their 30s, 40s, etc. the same way men are attracted to women in their 30s, 40s, etc.
No, that doesn't mean these women are all settling for guys they aren't attracted to. Women are often attracted to guys based on things other than looks. And furthermore, relationships are often not based on attraction, but deeper more meaningful things. Physical attraction is just based on the way the person looks.
Yes, I do believe that many women (but not all) stop being attracted to those young teen and early 20s guys as they get older. But that doesn't mean they develop that same attraction to men their own age. From what I can see, it seems like most of them just stop lusting after guys' looks in general. The only exceptions being the ones who still lust after those teen and 20something guys and may or may not be open about it. Contrast this with men, who fantasized about banging 30something and 40something women as teens and still do as 30something and 40something men.
Haha ha! Well, I'm over 60 now, and a good looking guy is a good looking guy. Yes, most of those good looking guys are younger than me at this point in life. But I think Sam Elliott is hot.
I'm 32. Many of the folks I grew up with are stuck in the middle age rut of corporate life, 2.5 kids, and "dug in" with the home, etc. I'm not like that. I don't know if I'd have much in common with an 18 year old, but I'd probably have more fun with a kid right out of high school than a 34 year old single mom of four kids or something.
Well, the part about most men finding teen girls most attractive is not accurate. Even guys in their teens would say girls in their 20s are hotter.
My theory is essentially that when it comes to purely physical attraction, women are generally not attracted to men in their 30s, 40s, etc. the same way men are attracted to women in their 30s, 40s, etc.
No, that doesn't mean these women are all settling for guys they aren't attracted to. Women are often attracted to guys based on things other than looks. And furthermore, relationships are often not based on attraction, but deeper more meaningful things. Physical attraction is just based on the way the person looks.
Yes, I do believe that many women (but not all) stop being attracted to those young teen and early 20s guys as they get older. But that doesn't mean they develop that same attraction to men their own age. From what I can see, it seems like most of them just stop lusting after guys' looks in general. The only exceptions being the ones who still lust after those teen and 20something guys and may or may not be open about it. Contrast this with men, who fantasized about banging 30something and 40something women as teens and still do as 30something and 40something men.
Dude, it wasn't long ago at all that we had a LONG thread (which I think got canned eventually) about some "study" that women peak in desirability at 18 and men at 50. And while I think that is absurd and people of all ages can be attractive to someone, lids for pots, and all that...there are men who really don't find women appealing after somewhere in her 30s. Our evo-bio-bros will tell you it's all about fertility. Which while that might have some basis in animal fact, I have to wonder if they believe that every man is actually trying to breed?
Anyhow. Lots of guys find youth sexy in women, full stop.
And lots of women like older, silver fox type guys. The whole "washboard abs" thing you expect to see with some 20-something fellow is pretty blah to some of us. And some men just seem to get better and better as they age. I didn't like young Sean Connery's looks (freaky eyebrows dude), but right around "Medicine Man" was his peak in my opinion. And Jeff Goldblum just keeps getting sexier. There's a photo shoot of his hot silver self in a leather jacket out there (Google images) that just...gets me. Of course, what makes me wish I could date him is more the interview I read where he just came off as the coolest cat you could ever want to enjoy some coffee and jazz piano with, but hey. Whatever.
Also I don't know if you're understanding the weight of various attraction factors properly. That purely visual lust factor you're thinking of might be really motivating for some people, but for a lot of us, the other stuff is so powerful, that if a more layered connection clicks into place, it affects how we see another person. When I first met my partner, he looked kind of "meh whatever" in my eyes. I half-jokingly say he looks like somebody's Dad, on vacation. Not my Dad, but somebody's. In his khaki shorts and button shirts, all neatly groomed and tattoo free. Not what I'd have pinned as the man who'd become my everything. But as we interacted, and more and more connections wove themselves into place between us...now thinking about his eyes makes me feel all fluttery, I love to mess up his hair and make him look like an evil mad scientist, his touch and scent...man, that's your animal lust right there. I've had (objectively) better looking partners who couldn't do anything like that for me. And I know, that being able to feel this way about a bonded partner, is not remotely weird among womankind. It happens all the time.
Sometimes I just wish that guys would stop trying to construct these theories. Your experiences don't make universal truths and rules or anything close to it. Neither do mine. Anything can happen. It's all just chaos. Just when anyone thinks they have it figured out, the cosmos will throw you a curve ball, so you might as well just relax and enjoy the ride.
I'm 32. Many of the folks I grew up with are stuck in the middle age rut of corporate life, 2.5 kids, and "dug in" with the home, etc. I'm not like that. I don't know if I'd have much in common with an 18 year old, but I'd probably have more fun with a kid right out of high school than a 34 year old single mom of four kids or something.
You wouldn't have much in common with either. The person your have most in common with would be another 30something who hasn't gotten married.
As for "I'd have more fun with a kid just out of school" coming from a 30something guy, well...don't make me drag out the C word. 'Cause that's just...I don't know.
You wouldn't have much in common with either. The person your have most in common with would be another 30something who hasn't gotten married.
As for "I'd have more fun with a kid just out of school" coming from a 30something guy, well...don't make me drag out the C word. 'Cause that's just...I don't know.
Actually I'm 30 and I find that I tend to relate most to 20somethings who are out of college. For example, I feel like I'd relate more to a 23 year old than a 33 year old. Most people in their 30s, even if they havent gotten married, are mostly starting to get settled down and are seeking marriage or at least a long term relationship. Me, on the other hand, I haven't even decided which continent I'm going to be in next year.
At 34, would you even have anything in common with an 18 yr old? I don't think I would.
Plenty of folks are married or dating who are 16 years apart.
However, the problem with a 34 year old dating an 18 year old is the perception that she only wants his money and he only wants her body/looks.
And as you stated, there is nothing in common with an 18 year old. 18 year olds are still trying to figure out their passion, career, life goals, studies, partners let a lone going out and just dating someone already well older than them. They're literally less than 1 year removed form living with their parents.
You wouldn't have much in common with either. The person your have most in common with would be another 30something who hasn't gotten married.
As for "I'd have more fun with a kid just out of school" coming from a 30something guy, well...don't make me drag out the C word. 'Cause that's just...I don't know.
Plenty of folks are married or dating who are 16 years apart.
However, the problem with a 34 year old dating an 18 year old is the perception that she only wants his money and he only wants her body/looks.
And as you stated, there is nothing in common with an 18 year old. 18 year olds are still trying to figure out their passion, career, life goals, studies, partners let a lone going out and just dating someone already well older than them. They're literally less than 1 year removed form living with their parents.
If that were the only problem, I wouldn't really have much issue with it. I feel like, if a man wants a woman he finds attractive, and a woman wants financial security (or even luxury) so long as they're both aware of the other's motivations and they're fine with that, then I don't care. Whatever brings you happiness. But the issues I have are:
1. I've known a number of older guy/younger woman (under 25) couples where the man is deeply insecure that she is going to leave him, feels deep down she's somehow "out of his league" and exhibits controlling behaviors, or acts like a sort of nearly parental authority as though in any conflict he is right and her voice is easily dismissed. It blurs the lines between partner/parent roles when someone isn't fully grown, and creates power imbalances that can easily tip into abuse.
2. An 18-25 year old is often not fully grown up. Even if they are mature. And you cannot stop the clock and freeze them at any age, so what a lot of men seem to overlook, is that this human being is going to change. Possibly a lot. They might transform into a completely different individual within 10 years or less. And often enough I see where the younger woman gets into her 30's and realizes she was never really that happy with the situation and seizes the first opportunity to check right out of it, or loses interest in her older partner.
They say that women marry men, hoping to change them (or that they will change, or mature) and men marry women hoping that we will never change. But men don't change, and women do, at least in the ways that matter to partners. I find that is particularly true in situations where one of them is not even a full adult yet. If a man in his 30's is "immature" and chooses a young woman accordingly, he may not be realizing that she's going to grow up in just a few years and probably expect him to mature right alongside her. Meanwhile his fun young companion is not so fun now that she is complaining about the housework and worrying about the bills, and she's starting to feel contemptuous of his childish ways. Just stuff to be realistic about.
(EDIT: I focus on older guy/younger woman, because I don't know very many older woman/younger guy couples where the man is under 25, though I've known plenty of women who will have some no-strings fun with guys that young, the ones I know don't tend to try and "keep" them.)
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