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I can see where you are coming from. I had those thoughts when I was living Japan and the porn there was… different, to say the least. But the reality of what I see from American men is that they get to the point where they don’t have realistic expectations anymore of what real human women are like. I knew one guy who would just go on about how every woman was ugly in some way or another, even women who were generally quite attractive. I wondered what he was looking at online to make this decision- likely not women who were the way they were naturally.
I would wonder what that statement meant. I'd probably have asked him what he meant. Been like I dunno what you expect, my dude...everybody poops? If it's that much of a problem that no woman is a perfect being, save up for one of those real dolls or something?
I mean, my feelings are their own complicated thing, I do not feel that they justify me telling any partner or any man that he can't or shouldn't enjoy porn. That is his own personal decision to make. But I can say with some certainty that there are individuals who are either alone a long time because dating is a struggle for them, or who just go through a "dry spell" for a few years, whose very frequent use of it cause real sexual dysfunction for them. I've seen this with a few previous partners who had such situations. And despite my attempts to be kind about it and no judgmental behavior on my part, one of those men got REALLY upset when he could not "perform"...but was not very willing to consider the fact that his solo activities were the problem. I guess it is addiction like, in that way... Similar to the guy who is like, "I can't keep a job" and you ask, "have you tried quitting the drugs" and they're like, "THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM!" OK sure. Don't know what to tell ya.
But I don't have moral opposition to it. I don't think badly of people who choose to make porn (though I just hope that they are not being exploited, obviously no one should do so except of their own free will.) Like I have mentioned, I've met a few porn stars, they were not cynical or broken or bad people. And I have tried to watch porn, I just can't get into it. It doesn't disgust me or bother me, I just find it boring. Like a genre of TV or movie that I simply can not get into. I've been to adult parties where people were doing stuff, and I've watched some people do stuff, and all I felt was a kind of joyful energy, even in person. Watching doesn't "turn me on." I'm just happy for people who seem to be really having a good time, and some of them are beautiful, like art. I would rather sit down and chat with a porn star than watch them do sex things on a screen any day, though.
Wow - that is certainly some judgement placed on people you don't know. And also a very weird line between "pretty and suggestive" and "dirty".
That's my personal experience, from all the "women of the night" I have met in my life.
And I have not seen a playboy magazine in about 20 years. Back then the women in the magazines were pretty, had nice hair, all teeth, good skin, athletic figure, and are in suggestive poses but not that dirty. These pictures are highly professional. No one touches them inappropriately, no one calls them dirty names. And many of these women were or turned into respected business women/models/actresses. I don't see many porn actresses turn into business women outside of the sex industry.
Most men I know would not mind if their partner would pose for Playboy. All of these men would not accept if their partner wants to play a role in a porn.
Excuse me for being naive here, but people have porn collections?
Well for anyone older than about 45 years it was once relatively expensive to get porn. And a few would not dump what remains in a format they have a working player for in case government is able to ban their free source of porn
So the line is crossed when you see them as a person?
For me, the humanity is the good part. The anatomy...that's not even special. Everybody's got a body. Who cares?
The line is crossed when there is an emotional/romantic connection forming or sexual contact. There is no emotional connection with the porn actress.
I agree with the humanity. That is why I prefer relationships. If you are in a relationship and cannot get that from your partner then you need to fix or end the relationship. Porn is a poor substitute for release of your intimate needs. As others have said it is inferior, a bandaid.
Less than a year into marriage, I jokingly mentioned that I found Russian accents hot. Cue a decade of hissy fits about how I probably wished she was Russian and this and that. Every freekin argument.
She was probably right, though. At least, she was right in that I wished she was anyone other than who she was. Smh
That's my personal experience, from all the "women of the night" I have met in my life.
And I have not seen a playboy magazine in about 20 years. Back then the women in the magazines were pretty, had nice hair, all teeth, good skin, athletic figure, and are in suggestive poses but not that dirty. These pictures are highly professional. No one touches them inappropriately, no one calls them dirty names. And many of these women were or turned into respected business women/models/actresses. I don't see many porn actresses turn into business women outside of the sex industry.
Most men I know would not mind if their partner would pose for Playboy. All of these men would not accept if their partner wants to play a role in a porn.
Women of the night? So like...vampires?
Yeah, Playboy was always "softer" porn...there were other magazines even back in the day that had the more graphic stuff. There is some range in what you see in porn videos, too. Which brings me to another thing...the people I've known who are REALLY into porn, seem to need to get their "taboo button" pushed to get any stimulation out of it, and as time goes on, what pushes that button gets more and more extreme.
And while, you know, far be it for me to kink shame anybody right?...still, the fact is, the more "out there" a person's mental stim buttons get, the harder it can be for them to be satisfied with relatively common/normal partner preferences and sexual activities. AND, when you have someone whose tastes in porn have gone to some fringe extreme because they've desensitized mentally to all of the relatively "normal" stuff...that can become like a shameful secret they feel they have to keep from their partner. Or if the partner finds out or it is not kept secret, can make them very uncomfortable.
I do have what I believe to be legitimate concerns about how porn use (abuse?) can affect people's relationships, mental health, and sexual function.
But I do not believe that it's fair to assume that the furtiveness and shame that many might feel about their porn habits be projected onto all who create the material. And how many porn actresses have you known, anyways? I don't mean just any and all kinds of sex workers, I mean this, in particular? Not that I've known many, but as I said, I have met a few.
There are a lot of different...shades? so to speak?...of porn and people who make it. There's far too much exploitation, from desperate people who really don't WANT to be doing it, to the trafficked, to partners who record consensual sex with or without permission, but then put it online without consent. All of that is terrible and there's way too much of it. But there are also plenty of people who have just embraced the fact that they can get paid for doing something that they find to be fun. And in fact there ARE some porn actresses, notably some of the big "stars" who were in on the ground floor of video before it was free online, who made bank and went on to be successful investors and are not sketchy people in the way that they live. Are they going to be "respected" by the pearl clutching PTA set? Maybe not. Though it's funny to me what kind of things even the "conservatives" in this country will accept nowadays, so heck you never know. But I have to laugh about "dirty" and "touches inappropriately" or "calls dirty names"...like sure, I wish that porn did a better job of portraying the kind of sex that most women might actually enjoy because guys learn some STUPID things from porn, but it's hardly "inappropriate" when it's the entire point. And I don't really think of consensual sexual activity as "dirty" though I understand that in our Puritan descended culture many do.
It feels so odd to be defending it or at least defending those who consensually create the content, when I am not at all a fan of watching it, nor do I feel entirely comfortable with my partners doing so... But I have that streak of liberty-mindedness that says that consenting adults should be able to do what they want and people shouldn't make assumptions and judgments about it if it's not harming us. There are plenty of things I am not personally into, but I defend the freedom of others to indulge in without shame if they want.
Haha, my super straight-laced dad paid his way through military college in the '50s selling subscriptions to Playboy. He was always proud of that little hustle. It wasn't considered something dirty that needed to be hidden back then.
Back in the late 1980's / early 1990's there were a bunch of anti porn feminists (Andrea Dworkin, Catharine A. MacKinnon and others) arguing about the evils of porn and how porn was a/the cause of rape culture culture. At the time I wasn't that convinced because the cultures that seemed to have the most porn like Japan and the nordic countries didn't seem to have that much rape where the countries that did crack down on porn the most stringently, like the middle east, seemed to have a bigger problem. Now I am not so sure.
The official rape stats in the west aren't that great. The FBI crime stats report rape that was officially reported to the police and that means that they massively undercount the true size and scope of the date rape problem. Annectdotally I can say that there is a lot of women who have beeen date raped, but I don't really know how much of this was caused by relaxing social control on women during the 1970's vs how much of it was porn or whether there has always been this high level of date rape that just wasn't reported.
But when I see article like this one talking about the rise among college students of choking during sex, I am thinking porn does have a bigger impact on society than we tend to acknowledge. People are taking sexual scripts from porn and introducing them into their actual sex lives. A big element in choking porn is sexual humiliation and I am wondering how much of that is being brought into the bedroom as well. So that concerns me.
The other thing I now question is the degree of consent involved for the women in porn. E used to run this show The Girls Next Door about life in the Playboy Mansion. At the time I thought it was kafabe like the WWE and that there was no way any of these women let alone all of them were having sex with Hef. I thought he was just too old, but I figured that Playboy and E had the money and right incentives to ensure that the women playing this role were both well paid for their kafabe and eveything was otherwise above board. So that is why I listened to the Call her Daddy podcast with Holly Madison as the guest and that wasn't the case at all. If Playboy didn't have the right incentives to not exploit these women, what are the odds these fly by night porn companies are not completely exploiting their talent? When Stormy Daniels was trying to sue Trump, she was completely ripped off by Michael Avenatti, if the pornstar suing the President of the United States in a nationally prominent lawsuit can't get a good lawyer what are the odds that in her day to day life, that these mostly much younger 18, 19 year old generally undereducated porn starlets can get a good lawyer/talent agent when negiotiating their deals? So again I am questioning just how adequate the consent here is for these young women in practice.
Yeah, Playboy was always "softer" porn...there were other magazines even back in the day that had the more graphic stuff. There is some range in what you see in porn videos, too. Which brings me to another thing...the people I've known who are REALLY into porn, seem to need to get their "taboo button" pushed to get any stimulation out of it, and as time goes on, what pushes that button gets more and more extreme.
And while, you know, far be it for me to kink shame anybody right?...still, the fact is, the more "out there" a person's mental stim buttons get, the harder it can be for them to be satisfied with relatively common/normal partner preferences and sexual activities. AND, when you have someone whose tastes in porn have gone to some fringe extreme because they've desensitized mentally to all of the relatively "normal" stuff...that can become like a shameful secret they feel they have to keep from their partner. Or if the partner finds out or it is not kept secret, can make them very uncomfortable.
I do have what I believe to be legitimate concerns about how porn use (abuse?) can affect people's relationships, mental health, and sexual function.
But I do not believe that it's fair to assume that the furtiveness and shame that many might feel about their porn habits be projected onto all who create the material. And how many porn actresses have you known, anyways? I don't mean just any and all kinds of sex workers, I mean this, in particular? Not that I've known many, but as I said, I have met a few.
There are a lot of different...shades? so to speak?...of porn and people who make it. There's far too much exploitation, from desperate people who really don't WANT to be doing it, to the trafficked, to partners who record consensual sex with or without permission, but then put it online without consent. All of that is terrible and there's way too much of it. But there are also plenty of people who have just embraced the fact that they can get paid for doing something that they find to be fun. And in fact there ARE some porn actresses, notably some of the big "stars" who were in on the ground floor of video before it was free online, who made bank and went on to be successful investors and are not sketchy people in the way that they live. Are they going to be "respected" by the pearl clutching PTA set? Maybe not. Though it's funny to me what kind of things even the "conservatives" in this country will accept nowadays, so heck you never know. But I have to laugh about "dirty" and "touches inappropriately" or "calls dirty names"...like sure, I wish that porn did a better job of portraying the kind of sex that most women might actually enjoy because guys learn some STUPID things from porn, but it's hardly "inappropriate" when it's the entire point. And I don't really think of consensual sexual activity as "dirty" though I understand that in our Puritan descended culture many do.
It feels so odd to be defending it or at least defending those who consensually create the content, when I am not at all a fan of watching it, nor do I feel entirely comfortable with my partners doing so... But I have that streak of liberty-mindedness that says that consenting adults should be able to do what they want and people shouldn't make assumptions and judgments about it if it's not harming us. There are plenty of things I am not personally into, but I defend the freedom of others to indulge in without shame if they want.
you are correct, I agree to most of your statements. I met quite a few sex workers back in the 90s when I was clubbing wildly with a certain demographic.
The other thing I now question is the degree of consent involved for the women in porn. E used to run this show The Girls Next Door about life in the Playboy Mansion. At the time I thought it was kafabe like the WWE and that there was no way any of these women let alone all of them were having sex with Hef. I thought he was just too old, but I figured that Playboy and E had the money and right incentives to ensure that the women playing this role were both well paid for their kafabe and eveything was otherwise above board. So that is why I listened to the Call her Daddy podcast with Holly Madison as the guest and that wasn't the case at all. If Playboy didn't have the right incentives to not exploit these women, what are the odds these fly by night porn companies are not completely exploiting their talent? When Stormy Daniels was trying to sue Trump, she was completely ripped off by Michael Avenatti, if the pornstar suing the President of the United States in a nationally prominent lawsuit can't get a good lawyer what are the odds that in her day to day life, that these mostly much younger 18, 19 year old generally undereducated porn starlets can get a good lawyer/talent agent when negiotiating their deals? So again I am questioning just how adequate the consent here is for these young women in practice.
If I remember correctly, Drew Barrymore said in an interview that she was an alcoholic by the age of 12 and a drug addict at 13, going to rehab after hanging around the Playboy mansion. Lots of pretty girls were there and creepy old men, coked out and having sex with the girls who were hoping it pays off for them.
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If it's that much of a problem that no woman is a perfect being, save up for one of those real dolls or something? 
