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Old 04-20-2009, 08:12 AM
 
5,108 posts, read 7,592,669 times
Reputation: 3456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Public_Newsense View Post
Anyone who thinks he's showing superiority is playing a masquerade. Everyone sees through it but them. We're all the same inside, get over yourself--that's what I think of snobs.

Amen and Hallelujah
True true true, thanks for this Public
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:29 AM
 
24,935 posts, read 26,459,963 times
Reputation: 33543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja View Post
Amen and Hallelujah
True true true, thanks for this Public
Of course you vote for it, because it fits your shrill and pretty unfounded views. Once again, would you hire a receptionist who mangles the English lanugage, yes or no? And if you wouldn't why not?

Be honest.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:57 PM
 
1,860 posts, read 2,565,820 times
Reputation: 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaicheg View Post
I know a family who shielded their American born baby inside an ethnic greenhouse: with their ethnic day care, ethnic holidays, ethnic TV channels, ethnic toons. The kid had virtually no exposure to English till the age of 5, now at the age of 5 she has major problems as they can't keep her inside the ethnic cocoon anymore. Now the kid has plenty of catch-up to do. Lots of ethnic kids refuse to speak the language of their parents origin, they rebel hard against it. I've known plenty of foreign born kids who do speak English like natives or very close. Vocabulary, grammar, usage, all fit.
This kind of cloistered ethno-cultural upbringing is not uncommon at all.

I have no issues if a given immigrant family from whatever culture wishes that their children will have a sense of identity and even cultural allegiance towards the old country. But if this kind of cultural maintenance means not even learning English - that's a problem.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:04 PM
 
1,860 posts, read 2,565,820 times
Reputation: 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
For the simple truth is that how people speak is a very valid basis for evaluation, particularly in the business world. In job interviews. In social situations. In presentations. In a thousand and one other ways, and rightfully so. For I no more want a person walking with me into a meeting who cannot speak a clear, concise, well-considered sentence than I would want to walk across a bed of hot coals. And, if you were actually an honest person, neither would you.
I don't disagree with you CPG. I have had the experience of writing emails to senior management, and when it was a project that I was working on with other colleagues, my colleagues often turned to me to revise the email. They knew it was wise to make sure any email sent to the higher-ups was written as well as possible - senior managers have neither the time nor the necessity to sift through poorly composed, unintelligible communication when they need to know clearly and quickly what kind of progress the staff they supervise are achieving.

But switching from written/spoken language to how one dresses, etc.... I will say that I have come across, on many occasions, people who were dressed elegantly and looked sharp, wealthy, and frankly, flawless. But when they opened their mouths, or when you saw them behave towards others, you would see that their level of social and/or scholastic education was much lesser than that one might conclude they possessed based strictly on their outward appearance.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:17 PM
 
24,935 posts, read 26,459,963 times
Reputation: 33543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
I don't disagree with you CPG. I have had the experience of writing emails to senior management, and when it was a project that I was working on with other colleagues, my colleagues often turned to me to revise the email. They knew it was wise to make sure any email sent to the higher-ups was written as well as possible - senior managers have neither the time nor the necessity to sift through poorly composed, unintelligible communication when they need to know clearly and quickly what kind of progress the staff they supervise are achieving.

But switching from written/spoken language to how one dresses, etc.... I will say that I have come across, on many occasions, people who were dressed elegantly and looked sharp, wealthy, and frankly, flawless. But when they opened their mouths, or when you saw them behave towards others, you would see that their level of social and/or scholastic education was much lesser than that one might conclude they possessed based strictly on their outward appearance.
Yup. I learned early on when I, a pretty junior person, was invited to sit in on a job interview.

We were sitting in the conference room when this guy comes in. He's dressed very nicely and shakes hands all around. And then he opens his mouth. The thing I remember was how he substituted the word "good" for "well," thereby using an adjective in lieu of an adverb. As in, "I did really good on that project." I looked around the table, and the eyes of the two senior guys conducting the interview were just dead, as if they had written him off. And they had. The interview concluded politely twenty minutes later, but the guy was never called back.

In my everyday business life, I only get to eat what I kill. If I don't sell my ideas and thoughts, then I don't make money. As a result, I've learned that the ability to speak correctly and effectively can very often mean the difference between getting business and not getting business. And if you're speaking as if you struggled with fourth-grade grammar, then that's what people will remember--not the content of what you're trying to say.

So, whether you're still in high school, college, or the beginning of your career, then do yourself an incredible, monumental favor and invest in a public speaking course. What's more, don't just take the course, but really work hard to master its principles. For your ability to stand in front of a group of people and deliver your thoughts succinctly, correctly, and without fear will prove the greatest advantage you have. Just trust me on this.
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:18 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
13,003 posts, read 21,939,421 times
Reputation: 10169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Public_Newsense View Post
Most people just speak colloquial English. Anyone who thinks he's showing superiority by supposedly using 'King's English' is playing a masquerade with himself. Everyone sees through it but them. We're all the same inside, get over yourself--that's what I think of snobs.
But what if some naturally speaks the Queen's English, that's just what they grew up with? And while they could dumb themselves down to speak in a more colloquial style, they don't want to because it offends their sense of integrity? My family happens to love the Queen's English, and it's sad for us to see English spoken poorly or not cherished.

And speaking the Queen's English is not about affecting an air or imitating an accent. Someone who isn't educated in that way or who doesn't think that way, isn't capable of faking it on the fly. An actor can follow a script and practice his lines, but speaking the Queen's English off the cuff can't be done by those who don't know it.

On another message board, I made a troll account for giggles. The funny thing was that I had a very hard time dumbing myself down enough to pass detection by the regular posters. I'd have to type a post, then keep editing it with misspellings and slang until it didn't sound like "me" anymore. My brain would hurt from the effort. But basically, the real me speaks a mediocre Queen's English all of the time... thanks to my parents and upbringing.

BTW I can't speak pidgin English either. I wish I could for an occasional goof, but I just can't.
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