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No. I am 50 years old and I bought my two family house about 16 years ago. My housing market has always been high priced since I live in the Boston area. And it took me about a year to find my place. It was a fixer upper and part of an estate sale. I also deal in antiques. And I find that with patience, there are always bargains to be had and that one has to resist being impatient and overpaying. But while one is looking and waiting for a house that is reasonably or underpriced, one also has to have the money saved and ready to make a move on that special place. To decide to rent forever is just giving up and it seems to me that very few renters bother to do anything wise with their money. They take the easy way out by renting and living week to week... and not planning for their future.
Anyway, I could never again seriously date a man that was a permanent renter type, and certainly I would never consider having a renter type move in or to marry him. If he is happy renting, then he can go ahead and live his renting lifestyle without me changing it for him. Shrug.
With all due respect Miu, I don't think you heard DennyCranes words. It's perfectly fine that you want a man who is a home owner but in today's market it's a lot more difficult for a young man/couple to obtain real estate apposed to 16+ years ago. Older people today look at the younger generation and they feel that we are inept, but the problem is not with us but with the fact that that the rules of the game have changed due to a long string of presidents who decided that globalism was the best way to go which exported jobs and imported undocumented workers.
So to compare a man financially today vs a man financially 20 years ago, it's just not the same.
Just like Denny, I happen to know a couple (in there mid 30's) in Califona who have a combined income of 80K-100k but they are stuck renting because to buy a home in a DECENT area is just too expensive. They know they can get a better deal on a home if they would move to another state, but they both know that finding jobs in that new area with equal pay is just not the reality.
Are you in your 30s? I am and I found your post to be a bit out of touch. Thanks to the real estate bubble and the ridiculous cost of college tuition, many of my fellow 30somethings have discovered that despite relatively good incomes, owning a home isn't necessarily within their reach. Many of us are still paying off student loans and/or live in cities where even a condo or townhouse is enormously expensive. I work in IT. Many of my friends who also work in IT live out in the bay area. I know one person who makes 125K, drives a Honda Civic, and doesn't have any other debt. He's not a big spender, doesn't get the latest and greatest TV, game consoles, and other assorted gadgets. And yet, despite making six figures, he shares an apartment with someone else. Why? Because to find something in his price range would put him so far away from his job that it would no longer make sense to work there. Now I suppose you could tell him to go get another job or move to a city where the cost of living is better. Problem is the bay area is where most of the high-paying jobs are in his field. If he moves to another city, the job opportunities decrease and the salaries offered are lower. These people have already invested a great deal in their education. Most have masters degrees and one has a PhD. So a lack of skills and education isn't what's restricting them. And none of these people are looking for luxury homes. A basic condo is all they'd want.
The problem (and it's something many economists who predicted the housing bubble have pointed out) is that average home prices shot up way past where they should've been, even accounting for inflation. Throughout American history, there's been a consistent ratio between home prices and rent. But during the housing boom, that ratio changed drastically. And I blame things like derivatives, credit default swaps, and loose lending standards for making housing unaffordable for so many because they all contributed to make housing far more expensive than it should've been. When my parents were there in their 30s, they didn't make a lot. But houses were cheaper and college tuition was a lot less. And while salaries have gone up, they haven't gone up nearly as much as college tuition and housing costs.
Yes it's true that the average American doesn't save, spends too much on useless junk, and as a fellow humanist, I roll my eyes too when I hear people say that God will provide. But I also know that there are many like me who are financially responsible, who do save, who do have high-paying jobs and yet we still feel like we have to really stretch to afford something decent.
San Francisco Bay Area homes sure aren't worth what they ask for them...
I wouldn't hold it against you to be 30 and not have a house. I think not living with parents is the biggie. Maybe you want your future wife to pick out the house of your dreams, instead of having to sell your house then move into another one. Any girl that holds that against you is just plain wrong!
With all due respect Miu, I don't think you heard DennyCranes words. It's perfectly fine that you want a man who is a home owner but in today's market it's a lot more difficult for a young man/couple to obtain real estate apposed to 16+ years ago. Older people today look at the younger generation and they feel that we are inept, but the problem is not with us but with the fact that that the rules of the game have changed due to a long string of presidents who decided that globalism was the best way to go which exported jobs and imported undocumented workers.
So to compare a man financially today vs a man financially 20 years ago, it's just not the same.
Just like Denny, I happen to know a couple (in there mid 30's) in Califona who have a combined income of 80K-100k but they are stuck renting because to buy a home in a DECENT area is just too expensive. They know they can get a better deal on a home if they would move to another state, but they both know that finding jobs in that new area with equal pay is just not the reality.
I know couples that have just turned 30 and have been able to buy condos. And one single young man who in his late 20's bought a house in Rhode Island. And I know several younger people that were able to buy nice houses around Dallas and Austin.
And don't forget, this younger generation was also able to make a lot more money than mine right out of college if they were IT majors. Right now, I know guys in their 20's that spend all their extra money on new cars that cost them 25K and up and... modifying them to go faster. What kind of nonsense is that? Meanwhile, I am still driving old Civics by choice.
Also, many young men I know give their girlfriends $1000 handbags for Christmas and frivolous jewelry like promise rings. I find the younger generation very materialistic on fluff purchases.
Sure, housing is many times over priced, but individuals should still be saving for the future and in case they do find a reasonable dwelling to buy. And they shouldn't be buying a house with only a 5% down payment. So where are their savings? My problem with someone not having their own house is not so much that they don't have a house, but they are at the opposite end of the spectrum by not having any savings or items of real value. Instead, they have frittered their money away on the latest electronic gadgets, HD tvs, AWD performance cars and designer clothing... all of which retain no value as they get outdated by new technologies.
Plus in the context of the person making this thread, his priorities in life seem to be more to watch his sports games on the telly than make an effort to further himself in life. And because of his addiction to his tv set, if he needed to, of course he would never pick up a second job to better his quality of life, heck he won't even let a potential date get in the way of his tv watching schedule! So at the end of his life, he won't have love or a comfortable nest egg, all because he had to watch his tv sports and shows... it just shows an amazing lack of thought and caring towards his future. His priorities are all messed up.
Can you still buy a house for $50K? I don't think I could save THAT much in ten years. I make about half of that in a year's time. But it's enough for me to pay rent, utlities, and have food in the house.
To decide to rent forever is just giving up and it seems to me that very few renters bother to do anything wise with their money. They take the easy way out by renting and living week to week... and not planning for their future.
Anyway, I could never again seriously date a man that was a permanent renter type, and certainly I would never consider having a renter type move in or to marry him. If he is happy renting, then he can go ahead and live his renting lifestyle without me changing it for him. Shrug.
I think you're buying into a stereotype about renters. It sounds a bit elitist. Most of my friends are renters. Like me, they make good money, but their circumstances and the cost of living in their respective cities make it extremely difficult to buy a home, at least one worth buying. None of them live week to week and they all plan for the future. They all plan to buy homes. But some are still paying off student loans. Some are or are needing to go back to school. And some are in cities where it's very difficult to save the sums of money required to buy a decent home. I know young people have this image of being poor savers, of wasting money on junk, but most of us aren't like that. I know I'm not. And yet I still feel like buying a decent home is a stretch. Anything else I need I can afford. But home prices shot up so much, they feel like luxury items to many of us, despite having socked away money for a down payment. I could trade in my car for a $1000 compact, eat PB&J sandwiches forever, and never buy new clothes. It would still take me a long time, despite my higher-than-average income, to ever be able to save up enough to put 20% down. If I could, I would sue the banks for driving up home prices to obscene levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01
So to compare a man financially today vs a man financially 20 years ago, it's just not the same.
Just like Denny, I happen to know a couple (in there mid 30's) in Califona who have a combined income of 80K-100k but they are stuck renting because to buy a home in a DECENT area is just too expensive. They know they can get a better deal on a home if they would move to another state, but they both know that finding jobs in that new area with equal pay is just not the reality.
I don't even think you could make that comparison to a man 10 years ago. The housing bubble has pushed home prices to such obscene levels that salaries haven't been able to keep up. I realize that some cities, like Boston and NY, have always been pricey. But the salaries always seemed to reflect that. The salaries are still high, but haven't increased at the same rate as housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk J
San Francisco Bay Area homes sure aren't worth what they ask for them...
It's Ridiculous.
It is. Unfortunately, you're paying mostly for location. It still amazes me what people will pay for a tiny old home all because it's near the train station. The easy lending standards of recent years just made it worse. People could buy homes WAY beyond their means and that just pushed the prices up making it more difficult for the rest of us. Where I live, if I wanted to buy a 2-bedroom townhouse 25 miles out from downtown, I'd be looking at close to 400K. That's why I would frown on any woman who judges me for not owning a home. What am I supposed to do? Pay 300K for some dump? Buy a decent home 50 miles out cause that's the only place I can afford to live?
I know couples that have just turned 30 and have been able to buy condos. And one single young man who in his late 20's bought a house in Rhode Island. And I know several younger people that were able to buy nice houses around Dallas and Austin.
And don't forget, this younger generation was also able to make a lot more money than mine right out of college if they were IT majors. Right now, I know guys in their 20's that spend all their extra money on new cars that cost them 25K and up and... modifying them to go faster. What kind of nonsense is that? Meanwhile, I am still driving old Civics by choice.
Also, many young men I know give their girlfriends $1000 handbags for Christmas and frivolous jewelry like promise rings. I find the younger generation very materialistic on fluff purchases.
Sure, housing is many times over priced, but individuals should still be saving for the future and in case they do find a reasonable dwelling to buy. And they shouldn't be buying a house with only a 5% down payment. So where are their savings? My problem with someone not having their own house is not so much that they don't have a house, but they are at the opposite end of the spectrum by not having any savings or items of real value. Instead, they have frittered their money away on the latest electronic gadgets, HD tvs, AWD performance cars and designer clothing... all of which retain no value as they get outdated by new technologies.
Plus in the context of the person making this thread, his priorities in life seem to be more to watch his sports games on the telly than make an effort to further himself in life. And because of his addiction to his tv set, if he needed to, of course he would never pick up a second job to better his quality of life, heck he won't even let a potential date get in the way of his tv watching schedule! So at the end of his life, he won't have love or a comfortable nest egg, all because he had to watch his tv sports and shows... it just shows an amazing lack of thought and caring towards his future. His priorities are all messed up.
don't ever come on here and post you are homeless and hunry and have no job because I will laugh, very hard.
I know couples that have just turned 30 and have been able to buy condos. And one single young man who in his late 20's bought a house in Rhode Island. And I know several younger people that were able to buy nice houses around Dallas and Austin.
And don't forget, this younger generation was also able to make a lot more money than mine right out of college if they were IT majors. Right now, I know guys in their 20's that spend all their extra money on new cars that cost them 25K and up and... modifying them to go faster. What kind of nonsense is that? Meanwhile, I am still driving old Civics by choice.
Also, many young men I know give their girlfriends $1000 handbags for Christmas and frivolous jewelry like promise rings. I find the younger generation very materialistic on fluff purchases.
Sure, housing is many times over priced, but individuals should still be saving for the future and in case they do find a reasonable dwelling to buy. And they shouldn't be buying a house with only a 5% down payment. So where are their savings? My problem with someone not having their own house is not so much that they don't have a house, but they are at the opposite end of the spectrum by not having any savings or items of real value. Instead, they have frittered their money away on the latest electronic gadgets, HD tvs, AWD performance cars and designer clothing... all of which retain no value as they get outdated by new technologies.
So everyone who doesn't own a home doesn't save? I take exception to that because I don't own a home and yet I save 1/4-1/3 of my after-tax income. I don't waste my money on cars, TVs, gadgets, or expensive clothes. I don't dine in expensive restaurants, take luxury vacations, or shower girlfriends with extravagant gifts. I work in IT so I make good money. I have quite a lot of money saved up, but still not enough to put a healthy down payment on a decent home. I suppose I could go buy a house right now. But it would either be something tiny, rundown and in a lousy neighborhood or something so far away that it would take me 1.5 hours to get to work.
I know people just like myself who are far worse off. They came out of school with much more in student debt. Some haven't been working as long because their fields required more education. One is a doctor. He started med school at 22, finished at 26. He did his residency and now he's doing his fellowship. He makes around 40K a year and he's carrying over 100K in student debt. He's over 30 and doesn't own a home. I guess according to your statement above, he's not financially responsible. Yes, someday he'll be making a truckload of money and will be able to buy a huge house. But my point is there are people like him whose circumstances have prevented them from buying a home by age 30. His story may sound extreme, but it really isn't. Many of my friends in IT have such enormous student debt that they freely admit the only reason they went into IT was to make enough money to pay off student loans. And after piling up so much debt, they've entered a world where, despite making big salaries and saving, Wall Street speculation and bad lending pushed home prices WAY beyond where they should've been.
Oh and BTW, even though I don't own a home, I do have some things of value. A 401k that I've been maxing out every year, a Roth IRA, I traditional IRA, and other investments. Should I have skipped all of those and spent that money on a home instead?
So everyone who doesn't own a home doesn't save? I take exception to that because I don't own a home and yet I save 1/4-1/3 of my after-tax income. I don't waste my money on cars, TVs, gadgets, or expensive clothes. I don't dine in expensive restaurants, take luxury vacations, or shower girlfriends with extravagant gifts. I work in IT so I make good money. I have quite a lot of money saved up, but still not enough to put a healthy down payment on a decent home. I suppose I could go buy a house right now. But it would either be something tiny, rundown and in a lousy neighborhood or something so far away that it would take me 1.5 hours to get to work.
I know people just like myself who are far worse off. They came out of school with much more in student debt. Some haven't been working as long because their fields required more education. One is a doctor. He started med school at 22, finished at 26. He did his residency and now he's doing his fellowship. He makes around 40K a year and he's carrying over 100K in student debt. He's over 30 and doesn't own a home. I guess according to your statement above, he's not financially responsible. Yes, someday he'll be making a truckload of money and will be able to buy a huge house. But my point is there are people like him whose circumstances have prevented them from buying a home by age 30. His story may sound extreme, but it really isn't. Many of my friends in IT have such enormous student debt that they freely admit the only reason they went into IT was to make enough money to pay off student loans. And after piling up so much debt, they've entered a world where, despite making big salaries and saving, Wall Street speculation and bad lending pushed home prices WAY beyond where they should've been.
Oh and BTW, even though I don't own a home, I do have some things of value. A 401k that I've been maxing out every year, a Roth IRA, I traditional IRA, and other investments. Should I have skipped all of those and spent that money on a home instead?
I think it just depends on your social circle. Most of the guys in my circle purchased homes in their 20's, for whatever reason. The pattern was that they bought nearly immediately after college/grad school, got married, stayed in the 1st house for a few years, and most have just bought their 2nd, much nicer home or custom built a home. All by 30 years old...
I don't think they had a master plan, it's just the way it happened. I also don't think they sacrificed quality of life to make that purchase. In fact, one of my girlfriends constantly brags on the fact that her husband's wise decision to invest in a house pre-marriage is the reason she can afford to be a SAHM.
My two best guy friends, however, both still rent. That's ok too. No one looks down on them for that and I can't say if that has anything to do with them being single or if they prefer that lifestyle and that's why they are single or whatever... I don't think any woman has ever mentioned it to them at all. I'm 30 and am nowhere near in a position to buy a home. My last long term bf didn't buy his first home until he was 30...
It's just a cultural thing for us. Agreed with all of the others, it just depends on where you live. Houses, townhomes, and condos here are available on the cheap (under 200k) so it's accessible and affordable for a lot of younger folks... well, it was, before the economy went to hell.
The problem with being a perpetual renter is that you are counting on there always being reasonably priced rental units. Had I not bought my house back then, I would now be paying more for rent what I am paying for my mortgage... Plus many decent apartments from back then have since turned into condos. And my house has almost tripled in value and I have equity in myself. And as a two-family, I have the option of having a tenant for extra income. It's in a great small city, but it's not in one of the fancy neighborhoods, so I don't have the pressures of having to keep my yard perfectly groomed for my neighbors. I was also smart and didn't give in to the temptation to sell my place when the market was high. I bought my house as a residence, not as an investment.
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