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A few years ago I became friends with a GORGEOUS young woman who revealed to me that she was formerly an "escort" in New York during her college years. She did this for nearly three years, working for a woman who was apparently selective and successful.
She told me that while sure, there were some distasteful experiences and a couple of times she'd feared for her well-being, for the most part the clients she "dated" surprised her.
One thing she said stuck with me and reminded me of a Dear Abby letter I'd read nearly thirty years ago.
My friend said that a surprisingly high number of the men who took her out had dinner, conversation and -- dropped her off.
She said so many of these men seemed to want nothing more than conversation with someone who talked TO them she really had to revise her thinking on men as a whole. Another thing she said was that many of these men not only seemed to want someone to talk to but often spoke of the distance they felt from their wives. It bothered her and she finally had to make a rule about NOT speaking of the wives.
As for the Dear Abby letter, many years ago a woman wrote in that her husband had an affair with another woman. This woman couldn't get the question out of her mind: What does she have that I don't have?
Ms. Van Buren wrote back: What does she have that you don't have? The answer to that is: Nothing. Often these things aren't about sex. What you need to ask yourself is what does she do that I don't do?
Now, that doesn't justify having an affair; but it SHOULD provide some food for thought all around. If people communicated more then this garbage would happen less. On the other hand not all people are capable of communicating well.
Also, it's very, very easy to sit back and self-righteously condemn anyone, man or woman, for having an affair, or to haughtily suggest that if they're incapable of communicating with their spouse they need to simply END it.
Yes, it's all terribly, terribly easy from an outsider's perspective. After all, what do YOU have to lose from this situation? NOTHING.
Let me provide myself as an example.
I've been married for nearly four years now, married later in life. We have one child who is everything I'd ever hoped for and dreamed of in a child. When we married I pitched myself and my finances into this marriage wholeheartedly and with utter devotion.
Over time my wife has proved to me she is FAR less devoted to this marriage's success than I. She's proved grossly irresponsible with regard to finances and has pushed us to a point where I fear bankruptcy. She has LIED to me countless times with regard to finances, past relationships and past incidents in her life which were painted very differently at the outset. She has a strong family support network with her parents and brother, so strong she refuses to cut the apron strings, often to the sheer detriment of our marriage. She is a loving parent but NOT an especially good one. She spends LONG periods of time away from home, staying with her parents and using work as justification.
This list could go on for rather longer but I assume you get the picture.
Now, as for divorce...
I pitched myself into this completely. I have no family support network. I've always been financially responsible (having learned a couple of hard lessons when much younger) and am being ruined by this woman despite that we should be sitting very prettily about now.
I'm a man; ergo, as much as people wish to spout off about equality and/or joint custody, I stand to LOSE my son. That doesn't just mean visitation, it means watching someone else raise him in a manner I disapprove of WHILE I try to work repairs during visitation. People say "joint custody" all the time, failing to realize there is still a Primary Caregiver. Add some distance to that -- voila, "joint custody" becomes an empty phrase.
If we fold, she just packs up and goes home to mommy and daddy; I, on the other hand, lose pretty much everything, start over having lost my dream of a small farm because I can't keep this on my own, end up back in the city in some cheap little apartment because NOW I'd be paying child support as well. We both work in the city, we both have a commute, but hers is too inconvenient, like so many other things.
The biggest part of that: Losing my son, my wonderful boy. Guys, never, EVER forget that when it comes to custody, few people play fair. She's fighting for "her" children, who are her blood. YOU are just some guy she met in a bar. NEVER forget that.
Now...
All that time I spend alone, weeks at a time when she's gone because she doesn't want the inconvenience of driving 45 minutes home after 8 pm... When she's there, she's mostly interested in the television: America's Next Top Model and other "reality" shows are her big fix.
Think I don't get lonely? Think I don't wish often there was some neighbor woman near my age with whom I might share supper during the winter after I've taken care of chores? Someone who knew the score?
And if I did -- what of it? My wife has made her feelings (or lack thereof) clear, but divorce costs me EVERYTHING because I was the one who did the right thing in the first place, pouring all I had into this allegedly "joint venture".
I haven't, because I won't risk losing my son -- but I'll be blasted if I haven't thought about it long and hard, a thing I once swore to myself I'd NEVER do.
It's VERY easy to condemn when it's not you and you stand nothing to lose.
Thanks for sharing this. This is definitely a complex issue. However, if you did cheat, you'd have even less in your favor and while children might understand some of the conflict going on between mother and father, they don't feel so great about any parent spending time with someone else. Kids want to believe that their parents can work things out or that they are "good" people. Kids want to look at their parents, while knowing they are human, and have someone to respect and be guided by.
So if you wind up cheating and get caught and the children find out, it ruins a relationship with your children possibly and if you have a vengeful and emotionally abusive spouse, she can use that against you no matter what she's doing or has been doing. From what you describe, I am sure she's been cheating. Leaving you alone for long periods of time sounds like abandonment and a way for her to get away and "do her own thing".
I think this is a situation where you are going to have to lose something to gain something. No way to have a perfectly clean escape here. Some situations are just that way, unfortunately as it's gone on too long and gotten very tangled. But if it means freedom from being in an abusive, neglectful and degrading relationship that leaves you feeling disrespected, unwanted and lonely, then it would be worth it. You can't stay forever married to this person. It's highly dysfunctional and THAT affects your kids too. It also affects your ability to function well emotionally over time. This is going to break you down further.
I think what you might want to do is to begin speaking with financial consultants privately..anyone that can help you make a better transition. Begin preparing for a leave...a divorce. Begin communicating with your children about things, in a way they can understand, so that they KNOW where you stand, that you are a good guy and only want the best for them while being happy for yourself.
I think you'll have to endure loneliness a bit more while you prepare for a divorce and a proper escape; gather your resources and see what you can do to lessen the loss when you finally do make the jump for a divorce. Trust, that the escape you won't need on your side is an affair. It will backfire in many ways and can be used against you.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you can eventually move on and get everything figured out.
Really? If you don't have a partner, you can't even make new friends? How do you find a partner to begin with? Or have you written something you don't quite mean?
I mean that I don't have friends. The only friend I have at any given time is my partner--if I have one. No one gets to know me personally unless I'm in an intimate relationship with them. I am very guarded around other people.
Bingo. Not a single "justification" for cheating makes a compelling argument against JUST EXITING YOUR UNHAPPY MARRIAGE OR RELATIONSHIP if you'd like to look elsewhere. If all those terrible things are true for you, by all means, find somebody else. But end your CURRENT relationship first. Why cheat? There's simply no justifiable reason.
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Originally Posted by wigirl920
There are no justifications...only excuses.
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Originally Posted by mrstewart
There is no defense of marital affairs...not happy?? leave but don't take everyone else down on your sinking ship.
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Originally Posted by bobman
there are many REASONS, but there can be no justification.
I agree with all.
Urban, you are in a tough spot, but I admire your devotion to your son. That is worth everything you are going through, in my opinion. There is nothing I would not do for my son, so I'm with you 100%. Hang in there.
This message board is full of stories about how terrible ex husbands, wives and SO's were for having an extra marital love affair.
While everyone says how terrible these affairs are, a large percentage of married men and women cheat on their spouse. There must be something that keeps them going.
So I researched the topic on the Internet and other message boards and tried to understand why so many married men and women of all ages, races, backgrounds and economic situations have affairs. This is what I found out:
* Most men have affairs not for the sex but because they are lonely. Friendships among men tend to be more activity related and are generally not that close, so if the men don not communicate well with their wife they need someone else to get close to.
Is that really a defense? How come the man do not have "male" friend and do stuff that is within the boundaries of his marriage? How come that man does not have any male friends that can relate?
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* If they do have an affair, while the conversation is nice the sex is even better. Men and women who do have affairs report the sex is out of this world and a 100 times better than married sex.
Of course the sex is much better, just compare the environment of the fantasy that affair brings into the picture. I would guess is that they hook u in some hotel where no day to day family / house / kid problems to spoil the mood.
If the man sets aside time and resource to handle the issues, he can create the environment to have wild passionate sex with his wife too. Likewise, the wife too probably could help make it happen. It's the responsibility of both, and not just from one spouse.
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* Life is boring and people want something new and exciting to keep them going each day. Something new to think about, something different and something thrilling and dangerous.
Boring is generated by a boring person. Life would be more balance with both new and same/predictable. It's probably why most people work on weekdays and have free weekends.
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* People want to feel attractive and wanted and most married relationships do not make you feel that way.
Feelings are all within one's control. To say one person "can make you feel" a certain way is basically you letting of the control and responsibility of your own feelings.
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Can you think of any other justifications for extra marital affairs?
There is no justification for betrayals. If you are no happy in the marriage, be a man and talk to your wife, end the relationship first before moving into another one.
This message board is full of stories about how terrible ex husbands, wives and SO's were for having an extra marital love affair.
While everyone says how terrible these affairs are, a large percentage of married men and women cheat on their spouse. There must be something that keeps them going.
So I researched the topic on the Internet and other message boards and tried to understand why so many married men and women of all ages, races, backgrounds and economic situations have affairs. This is what I found out:
* Most men have affairs not for the sex but because they are lonely. Friendships among men tend to be more activity related and are generally not that close, so if the men don not communicate well with their wife they need someone else to get close to.
If a man has to sleep with a woman other than his wife to have a conversation, then he should not be married to his wife.
* If they do have an affair, while the conversation is nice the sex is even better. Men and women who do have affairs report the sex is out of this world and a 100 times better than married sex.
The sex is out of this world because there's no alimony or child support issues looming in the man's mind; he doesn't owe the woman he's sleeping with his pension either.
* Life is boring and people want something new and exciting to keep them going each day. Something new to think about, something different and something thrilling and dangerous.
It's the grass is greener syndrome; everyone always thinks someone else is having more cake than they are....in reality the one eating the most cake turned into a diabetic.
* People want to feel attractive and wanted and most married relationships do not make you feel that way.
If you're not with someon who doesn't think you're the cat's pajamas, you're in the wrong relationship.
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Can you think of any other justifications for extra marital affairs?
I find no justification in having an affair while married; if it's not working and not fixable, get a divorce & then see how much fun it is to be really "on your own."
Yup! I cheated on my ex while we were married for many of the reasons already stated here by others. And yes, I was not mainly interested in sex with another woman. I needed a woman in my life who would encourage me; a woman whom I could speak my mind to without having to hear..."what do you mean by that?"
My ex was the type of woman who was not satisfied until she heard precisely what she wanted to hear. If my opinion differed from hers she would try to convince me of her position. Unfortunately, her efforts to convince would turn into a nag session each time. I would stay quiet until I'd give in just to get her to shut up.
As our marriage got closer to it's end, she began limiting my freedoms within my own home to the point where I was not allowed to listen to certain type of music.
Yup! I cheated on my ex while we were married for many of the reasons already stated here by others. And yes, I was not mainly interested in sex with another woman. I needed a woman in my life who would encourage me; a woman whom I could speak my mind to without having to hear..."what do you mean by that?"
My ex was the type of woman who was not satisfied until she heard precisely what she wanted to hear. If my opinion differed from hers she would try to convince me of her position. Unfortunately, her efforts to convince would turn into a nag session each time. I would stay quiet until I'd give in just to get her to shut up.
As our marriage got closer to it's end, she began limiting my freedoms within my own home to the point where I was not allowed to listen to certain type of music.
Damn right I had a good reason to cheat!!!
Sounds to me like they were good reasons to work on the marriage and if that didn't work - get a divorce.
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Sounds to me like they were good reasons to work on the marriage and if that didn't work - get a divorce.
