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I would never have thought to burn a Koran until I learned some Muslims think they can use violence and extortion to keep people from criticizing their ideas. Now that has become the main reason I want to burn one.
But I know that not everyone values free speech or believes the right to criticize an idea is important enough to fight for. It's easier to buy your peace at the price of freedom I guess.
For the record I actually participated in "Draw Muhammad Day." I think it's unreasonable to demand non-Muslims obey Muslim law and it's also not even true all Muslims forbid depictions of Muhammad. In the past I would have demurred from depicting Muhammad as a courtesy, but I feel the violence directed at depictions of Muhammad must stop and I felt a need for solidarity particularly as some victims have been fairly innocent. (The teacher who named a Teddy Bear Muhammad, as it's a common name, or the woman who wanted to do a children's book that showed Muhammad)
However this feels different to me. The basis and thinking is almost exclusively hostility to Islam. And kind of being a jerk. Do you have a legal right to be a jerk? Well yeah, but I don't think we need to celebrate jerkiness for the sake of being a jerk. People have a legal right to throw dredels in the fire, and chant Anti-Jewish slogans while doing it, but that doesn't mean I have to be okay with it.
This man is not a Christian. He is another protestant set adrift and lost in cultural relativism. Instead of one Pope the protestants have as many Popes as they have denominations. Now we have 30,000 wannabe Popes interpreting scripture and breaking off into thousands of different protestant denominations. These people have turned being a Christian into a rabbinical debating society with as many interpretations of Holy Scripture as there are men. They have fractured the Christian world and damaged Christ's covenant. It time for these people that love Christ to come home to the Church that he founded.
It is time for all Christians to come home the only Church founded by Jesus. The Pope is not really the one who decides matters of doctrine. It is God who decides, through the office of the Pope; God, not man, who is guiding the Church in unfolding and explaining the meaning of the deposit of faith. God is the interpreter of scripture and the One who settles matters of doctrine, and He does so infallibly through the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church. This guy in Florida making his own decisions in the name of Christ is an embarrassment to all who work with Christ in their heart.
This man is a nut...power hungry and has an agenda...which is going to get him more church money, more members...I cannot beleive the media is covering this....this is going to start a lot of bad things, not to mention, undo everything we've done in the middle east....plus, get our men killed...but, apparently, this extremist...is only concerned about his agenda and not human life....???? The media is coverning this, b/c they are liberal facisits...and all for socialization...people mistakenly mix up the word facisit with Hitler, however, Hitler killing the Jews had nothing to do with Facisium....
It's going to far, and I cannot believe once again, religion is going to get people killed....how are we any better then The Terrorists?
People are sick, sick, sick, and it's time that the Christian community come forth and denouce this act....I can't believe people are standing by and allowing this to happen? We haven't progressed, we've regressed....this act is primitive hype to start problems...and believe you me, if this man goes ahead with this, then every human being who is killed afterwards, he should be held accountable....he will undo everything our men died for in the middle east!
Here's my take on it
1. I don't care.
2. I am getting a chuckle out of the pastor's antics.
I'd explain 2 this way. The Islamic world is acting like one sick puppy that throws a tantrum if someone does anything with their prophet or their holy book. They go into the streets, burn effigies blah blah blah. They think the western leaders will line up for an apology contest. It must stop. If you think the Koran is so holy, they are to be treated with the utmost respect "within" their own perimeters.
They think they can hold the world hostage? No. The pastor should go ahead and burn it. Noone should care if the ME goes haywire. That's just life. It does not have to be everyone's holy book. One man's holy book is the source of another's ridicule. That's just life. The Islamic world doesn't get it. They're retards
Now fetch my pop corn. Can't wait to see some wacko burn the Koran, it will generate great entertainment material
I do not mean to sound patronising but it is a big world out there and certain actions performed a world away in the US can indeed reverberate,having consquences far afield.
Example,such an action can indeed have an effect on those of us that do travel to the Islamic world,indeed with very negative outcomes.
Just the fact of being a Westerner,not even an American,could in fact prove to be more perilous due to such an innane outburst from this nutter.
I know what you're trying to say, but the bottom line- this isn't the sort of thing that the "butterfly effect" is all about. While I agree with you that yes, people may *know* about what this guys does, it's ONLY because of the media, and not because his actions have any sort of ripple effect. This is NOT the type of action that has any consequences other than what anyone gives it via their attention. It doesn't concern individuals other than those directly involved, nor their rights. NOBODY'S rights are violated in the least bit with regard to this dope's burning this Saturday. NOBODY'S!!! And that's the way it should be. That's why I'm glad we live in a country where a person can act as foolishly or obnoxiously as he wishes so long as he doesn't step on anyone else's toes while doing so.
What this man is doing doesn't even compare to a 2nd grader taking a classmates bookbag and dragging it through the mud. The aforementioned 2nd grader would actually being doing something wrong to another person. But this cretin minister, with his quran burning- is not. Yeah, it's rude/insulting, obnoxious, and reeking of self-importance- but in the end, he isn't DOING anything that matters! It's the whole TAKE on the IDEA of what he's doing that everyone is giving him. Which is STUPID. And while I do understand that we aren't dealing with rational human beings when it comes to the religious terrorists that support islam- I still will stand firmly on my blaming the media if any harm comes to this man. Nobody in the middle east or anywhere else would know about this guy, or who he IS if the media wasn't so quick to post pictures, addresses and so forth. If this guy gets hurt- blame the media. Straight away.
I just think people or, really, the WORLD needs to all mind their own business except for what concerns them directly. Yeah....that'll happen....
Bottom line, though, I do digress and understand that irregardless of the media being to blame or not- fact is, things will NOT be good for the US and its foreign relations in the middle east if this goes through on saturday as planned. And I wish we didn't have such DOPES of the zealot christian ilk always standing out, and being the "accidental" ambassadors for this country and its representation of who we are as a people...no wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're chumps when we have dolts like this making the news all the time. And always in FloriDUH! How am I supposed to admit I live here, with a straight face?!...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka
Here's my take on it
1. I don't care.
2. I am getting a chuckle out of the pastor's antics.
I'd explain 2 this way. The Islamic world is acting like one sick puppy that throws a tantrum if someone does anything with their prophet or their holy book. They go into the streets, burn effigies blah blah blah. They think the western leaders will line up for an apology contest. It must stop. If you think the Koran is so holy, they are to be treated with the utmost respect "within" their own perimeters.
They think they can hold the world hostage? No. The pastor should go ahead and burn it. Noone should care if the ME goes haywire. That's just life. It does not have to be everyone's holy book. One man's holy book is the source of another's ridicule. That's just life. The Islamic world doesn't get it. They're retards
Now fetch my pop corn. Can't wait to see some wacko burn the Koran, it will generate great entertainment material
Gotta say, I really can't argue with that, I'll get some popcorn if you'll get the beer...
does this mean that all americans should get a pet pig.
Yup...it would be a huge answer.....bury a pig at the site of the new mosque. I heard....
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote in The New York Times that the attention surrounding the plans for the $100 million community center just blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 attacks "reflects the degree to which people care about the very American values under debate: recognition of the rights of others, tolerance and freedom of worship."
He said it was critical that Americans "not back away" from completing the project.
He also made the statement, that if he knew, the site would have caused this much controversy he wouldn't have chosen that site????? yeah right?????
OK, it shows one of two things, either he is so self absorbed, he doesn't see the sensitivity of his plan, or refuses to see it b/c of his agenda
or
like some of you have suggested, it is planely to wipe our faces in the mud of blood....
Did you all read this
Look up the Cordova mosque. Constantinople mosque. And the al-aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. All were built over Christian Churches or Jewish Temples to show muslim domination for islam.
Oh but the world will be politically correct right into domination, sharia law, anyone? Maybe another crusade is in order?
However… And I say that bluntly… However if you are a believer in Christ you do not need to fear islam. It is a fraud.
Muslims have an agenda and have made it very clear....where most people are having one - 3 children, they have been told and are, breeding people, explicitly for taking over the world...they're goal is to rule....and are having anywhere from 6 - 12 children...
Again, we live in our small worlds, a protective plastic bubble, away from the rest of the world, American's have become very unintelligent, regressing....choosing to not speak up, b/c it doesn't effect they're world
I don't advocate violence....but what I do advocate is the truth and breaking away from corruption and to do what is right for everyone...however, you can't please everyone all of the time....
The market will crash again, only next time, it's going to be disasterous, the way Obama and his administratioin is going....we can't keep spending money like water...however, Obama is, definately a puppet, and so is Washington. Everything is being run by the WTO, (world trade organization) greed and power.....
People are getting FED UP, and fortunately a lot more citizens of the U.S. are starting to see the truth, that both the Republican and Democratic Parties are very corrupt...
People are getting disgusted, frustrated and starting to wake up...and there will be a civil war....so people....if you want to end the Mosque or any further mosques being built anywhere, bury a pig on the ground...carry pig fat....and I'm serious....
Someone posted a video of the muslims in Paris, it is the absolute truth...they carry no sentiments for anyone else except, loyalty to they're religion....they are unlilke American's....they are ruthless and strong, and the only thing they have in the middle east, is they're religion, they walk, eat, and sleep by it, live they're lives by it...it is to them, they're reason for being....to breed and take over the world.....
Last edited by cremebrulee; 09-09-2010 at 06:48 AM..
I think what's being lost in this entire debate is not the issue of whether burning a Koran is right or wrong, for it surely has been discussed at length, but rather that the citizens of humanity have to once again mop up after the pathetic attention-getting schmoozes of religion. How fantastically stupid and ridiculous is it that one small religious group is allegedly poised to wreak such a tremendous backlash from a larger religion with a rather poor track record of keeping itself under control any time it feels offended?
It's not only sad but a grave injustice to our society when religion has once again woven its way into the fabric of our secular government when senators, governors, mayors, and the like feel it's their duty to speak out against actions taken by a certain religious group.
And, to be fair, larger groups like the Southern Baptist Convention and that crazy bunch of loony tunes operating the Evangelical movements across America have spoken out against this specific action. But, really, let's be honest in saying that you'll never hear them admit that religion is the sole cause of this particular dilemma.
The entirety of this one very publicized and hyped event falls squarely on the shoulders of religion and nothing else. Every person affiliated with religion, those who support religion, and those who back it and wish it back into the intricate fabrics of our society all bear responsibility for any backlash that may occur. It is the cockamamy garbage posited by religion that will provide the "logical pathway" for the pastor in Florida to burn Korans. It will also be the cockamamy garbage posited by religion that will provide some scrofulous Middle Eastern imam the "logical pathway" to declare a fatwah over something that could be viewed as far more benign than it is being taken as.
Let's be honest about it. Without religion there would be no statement from a general about troops being endangered due to one religious group burning another religious group's holy book. Without religion, we wouldn't have troops deployed in Afghanistan (and presumably Iraq if Bush is as loathsome a fundamentalist nutjob I presume he was). Without religion, we wouldn't have a small little church burning Korans because there wouldn't be such a thing. And, of course, without religion there wouldn't be three billion people worshiping the same Abrahamic God with different versions of barbarism separating the individual idiocies of each respective branch.
Without religion this problem wouldn't exist. This is not a Muslim issue. This is not a Christian issue. This is a religious issue and if it weren't for religions' obscenely grotesque ways of cleaning up their own messes, I'd suggest we let religion deal with the cleanup. Instead, everyone else is going to have their hands forced to deal with it all because of another crazy religious person. Go figure!
"Americans from all religious and ethnic backgrounds reject the offensive initiative by this small group in Florida. A great number of American voices are protesting the hurtful statements made by this organization," the Afghanistan embassy said.
The U.S. ambassador to Iraq, James Jeffrey, issued a joint statement with Lloyd Austin, the commanding general of U.S. forces in Iraq, to condemn the act.
"As this holy month of Ramadan comes to a close and Iraqis prepare to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, we join with the citizens of Iraq and of every nation to repudiate religious intolerance and to respect and defend the diversity of faiths of our fellow man," they wrote.
With about 120,000 U.S. and NATO-led troops still battling al Qaeda and its allies in the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban movement, Petraeus warned that burning Qurans "is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems -- not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."
Lebanese President Michel Suleiman denounced the Quran burning as "contrary to the teachings of tolerant divine religions and totally incompatible with the logic of dialogue among civilizations, religions and cultures."
OK, so I ask you, what man in his or her right mind, would do something so stupid as to burn the Qurans, and if it's going to cause this much upset, then why don't they arrest him?????? Why stand by and allow him to do it????? He is definately jeprodizing the lives of others...
and, this proves to me, that religion is hog wash....it is man made and very sick...and the proof of just how sick and powerful it is, is this issue, this debate, if it were not, this wouldn't even be an issue....religion has since the beginning of time, cost more lives....we are no better then any other culture or religion in other countries....matter of fact, American's always stick they're noses where they are not wanted....instead of getting they're own house in order....
We will never again be a strong nation or a leading nation...we have allowed our political leaders to run us into the ground....our technology stinks....people are going to other countries to get operations, b/c our prices are so high, the people they give us to vote for are lousy leaders, and we have lost words in our everyday life styles, like, the personal space of others, loyalty to others, respect for oneself and others, we can't even abide by speeding laws....no one seems to care about the corruptness that is going on in this country....and how bout that one little word "courtesy". The U.S. is at it's end....we've opened our doors to every vagabond giving them handouts....inviting them in... ruining our systems....nothing works and no one knows they're job, or really knows the meaning of a hard days work...we have become lazy...expecting something for nothing....maintaining our life styles at the expense of everyone else...we have invited the vampire in, and there is nothing more we can do....the stage is set, and we won't change....our country is being sold out....by not living by rules and regulations, every thing has become caotic. Rules are not always fair, but they are there for a reason...and our country's current situation, is living proof of that....
I'm not saying there isn't a God, I believe in God and faith, but I have little or no faith in religion...and just for the record, I don't agree with what the Muslims are doing either....the practice of Religious freedom, when they take God out of our prayers in School, and the Bible readings out of our schools, but condon what the Muslims are doing, how hypicritical is that? Sheeesh? I cannot believe the logic?
and to the man above me, GCSTroop who made the last post
BRAVO!!!!!
Last edited by cremebrulee; 09-09-2010 at 07:10 AM..
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he is not a Christian
