Homosexuals were made to be Homosexuals (believer, gays, sin, married)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Doesn't come from a Pastor...I can read it for myself...

Well you're not reading it very well and you're certainly not understanding it.

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

So you are saying that ALL the men of Sodom, young and old, from every quarter - were homosexuals?

I am not a bigot nor a hater...

Yes you are. You're just in denial.

I can read with my own eyes and understand with my own mind what the Scriptures state...

...and you think that the original said that do you?

Maybe Lot was offering his daughter so that the men could use them analy?...We do not know...

Homosexuals are not sexually interested in women, anally or otherwise.

However, it was his daughters that got him drunk and used him, not the other way around...

Really! Just how many times have you been so drunk that you are unaware that you are having sex with your own daughters....AND been able to get an erection in order to perform...not once but TWICE!!!! You're just clutching at straws now.

You need to face it pal. Homosexuals are born that way.

I assume that you are a normal heterosexual male (or perhaps you're trying to hide something huh....self-denial perhaps) so do tell me. As a normal heterosexual male, do you think you could 'choose' to have sex with another male? If the answer to that is no, please tell us why you think that others can.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Yankeerose00

What part don't you understand? You aren't going to find a loving, homosexual relationship in the Bible. All you are going to find are heterosexual men, many of whom had a wife/wives and families, engaging in perverted behaviors, many of which were nothing more than rape. Let's not forget the men in their 40s and 50s having sex with 13 year old girls. Good times!

I understand everything...Show me in the Scriptures were two men shared a loving relationship between themselves...If you state that Yehovaw blesses these types of relationships then there should be ample evidence in the Scriptures...And I just ask you to show me one, please...Point out that last sentence with Scriptural evidence, Please...

Originally Posted by Yankeerose00

So I take it you don't associate with anyone, including yourself, since we are all sinners, correct?

The righteousness is killing me.

And that is the point I am making...Homosexuality is just as much a sin as other sins...And sin is rebellion against the Law of Yehovaw...Doing what He tells us not to do, and not doing what He tells us to do...Simple...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Yankeerose00

That's a helluva theory.

We are born with our sexual orientation. It's the reason you'll see children as young as 5 having crushes on each other. Gay people don't choose to be gay any more than straight people choose to be straight. We aren't talking about behaviors. We are talking about something as simple as who you are attracted to.
Tell me Richard, would you want to be married to a woman who was attracted to other women her whole life but has been bashed and shamed so much by the church that she's now going to try to live a heterosexual lifestyle?

I swear over the years, I've met many guys within my church group whom I'm convinced were gay. I don't know if they were just in denial, or they were in a singles church group trying to change who they were because they were ashamed. But I wanted to say so bad, just come out of the closet already and the heck with these people! Be gay and be happy. 50 years ago, the word gay meant happy anyway.

That was not my post...But, since you addressed me in this I will respond...

So, you are telling me that it is 'OK' to be a fornicator?...To be a liar...To be a muderer...To be an adulterer...to be a killer...The geneticists state that not only do people have in there DNA to be gay, so that means they are born that way, but also, to be a murderer, adulterer, fornicator, liar, pedophile, etc....These are all sins, including homosexuality, according the Scriptures...But, we are only going to focus on one and say that it is 'OK' because you were born this way, so it is not a sin...But, all the other sins listed are ones that we must overcome?...Is this what you are saying?...One cannot have there cake and eat it to...Either something is a sin that must be overcome just like any other sin or ALL sins are 'OK"...I mean, if the geneticists say that one is born with a predispotion to something and therefore it is not their fault, it is there DNA...Then, I must have been born with a predisposition as a fornicator, adulterer, killer (Military, not killing civilians, but the enemy, just to be clear on that) without conscience, violent...So, I should just be happy with who I was born to be and not worry about overcoming these sins...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Well you're not reading it very well and you're certainly not understanding it.

Sure I am...The Greek, the Hebrew...It isn't very difficult...

Originally Posted by Rafius

So you are saying that ALL the men of Sodom, young and old, from every quarter - were homosexuals?

That is what it states...

Originally Posted by Rafius

Yes you are. You're just in denial.

No I'm not...

Originally Posted by Rafius

Really! Just how many times have you been so drunk that you are unaware that you are having sex with your own daughters....AND been able to get an erection in order to perform...not once but TWICE!!!! You're just clutching at straws now.

Well, the Scriptures state that he was unaware of when she lay down with him or when she arose...

Originally Posted by Rafius

You need to face it pal. Homosexuals are born that way.

So, are murderers, pedophiles, adulterers, killers, violent people, Liars, thieves, etc...

Originally Posted by Rafius

I assume that you are a normal heterosexual male (or perhaps you're trying to hide something huh....self-denial perhaps) so do tell me. As a normal heterosexual male, do you think you could 'choose' to have sex with another male? If the answer to that is no, please tell us why you think that others can.

Sure I could...Just for the sexual thrill of it...However, it would still be a sin...

[sanspeur]

Richard, why are you comparing law abiding homosexuals to all sorts of criminals? Your bigotry must run very deep....Regarding your last statement... (Sure I could...Just for the sexual thrill of it...However, it would still be a sin) If you could get a sexual thrill out of sex with a man then I would say that it is time for some serious self examination, because you are either gay or bi-sexual.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

Richard, why are you comparing law abiding homosexuals to all sorts of criminals? Your bigotry must run very deep....Regarding your last statement... (Sure I could...Just for the sexual thrill of it...However, it would still be a sin) If you could get a sexual thrill out of sex with a man then I would say that it is time for some serious self examination, because you are either gay or bi-sexual.

Law abiding?...What Law are you referring to?...Man's laws or Yehovaw's Laws?...There is a difference...There are a lot of things that I could do for the thrill of it...Doesn't mean a thing...I also, experimented in the past with B&D...And S&M...For the thrill of something different, new or exciting...Doesn't mean that I still have the desire to do it...Having just sex with either is just that, getting off, it is a selfish desire and cocern for your own pleasures...Has anyone here slept with a woman, just for the sex, and then got up and left the next morning, or right after, and never called or met up with the woman again?...Selfish, concerned only for one's own gratification...There is no love involved in it...It is purly self gratification...I understand the human nature all too well...For I was once a selfish, self gratifying individual...I knew of a man in Philadelphia, when I was stationed there that came out of the Gay community and culture...He became a born again Christian, got married had children...He said that if I was born this way, why was I so miserable when I was gay?...And since he came from that culture, he well knew of the unhappiness of the other gay people, so he attempted to go back in and lead them out, with some success...Now that he is heterosexual, he says he is happy...And this is from a man that was gay and in a gay committed relationship...So, there goes your theory...whatever it was...

[Yankeerose00]

Richard the fact that you view a gay person in a loving relationship on the same level as the criminals you mentioned is proof of your hatred. Please stop saying otherwise.

As a normal heterosexual male, do you think you could 'choose' to have sex with another male? If the answer to that is no, please tell us why you think that others can.

I think this is an excellent question, Rafius and I've asked this of family or friends who skewer me over my acceptance of homosexuals. Their response comes down to, "If God wanted me to play for the other team, I would." Suuure. Thank God I was born hetero because I cannot imagine dealing with the sh*t gay people have to deal with on a regular basis. It's sad. And the funny thing is, in my experiences, the more hate a person has for gay people, the more screwed up and dysfunctional their own life is. I've seen it over and over. People unhappily married, having affairs, neglectful parents, pill poppers, just overall basket cases with their own lives. But they carve out a little time each day to hate the queers, bless their hearts.

I knew of a man in Philadelphia, when I was stationed there that came out of the Gay community and culture...He became a born again Christian, got married had children...He said that if I was born this way, why was I so miserable when I was gay?..

Since I'm assuming you are serious I'll answer. Do you think that maybe, just maybe he was so miserable as a gay person because of people like you? I'm going out on a limb here.

And if he was able to change his sexual orientation, and not just his behavior, but actually switch from being attracted to men to being attracted to women, then so? good for him? What is the point of this anecdote. Bob in Philly switched teams gay people of the world. You can too!
Sorry, I don't buy it. His wife has some big time blinders on. I can't imagine marrying a guy who claimed he was no longer gay like it was a case of crabs that cleared up or something.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

That is what it states...

'Every single man in Sodom, young and old...was gay!!' That tells me all I need to know about you.

Well, the Scriptures state that he was unaware of when she lay down with him or when she arose...

Yeah right! Just like it says that every single man that resided in Sodom was gay huh?

So, are murderers, pedophiles, adulterers, killers, violent people, Liars, thieves, etc...

Shame on you for grouping homosexuals with the above. Your man-god would be proud of you I'm sure.

Sure I could...Just for the sexual thrill of it...

Yes...well as I said earlier, people that vilify homosexuals as much as you do usually have something to hide and often, that turns out to be their own homosexual tendencies. Thanks for proving what I said.

Originally Posted by Yankeerose00

Richard the fact that you view a gay person in a loving relationship on the same level as the criminals you mentioned is proof of your hatred. Please stop saying otherwise.

On reflection, I don't think he hates them...he's just in denial of his own homosexual 'leanings'. I mean, he's already stated that he would be fine having sex with another man "just for the sexual thrill of it". Hell" I couldn't!!!

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Me neither. If he could 'change' from being homosexual to being heterosexual then he wasn't homosexual to begin with. Sure he could get married and have kids, stop indulging in homosexual activities and put up a front of being 'straight'...but he would be no more 'straight' than an actor playing Macbeth....is Macbeth.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

I knew of a man in Philadelphia, when I was stationed there that came out of the Gay community and culture...He became a born again Christian, got married had children...He said that if I was born this way, why was I so miserable when I was gay?...And since he came from that culture, he well knew of the unhappiness of the other gay people, so he attempted to go back in and lead them out, with some success...Now that he is heterosexual, he says he is happy...And this is from a man that was gay and in a gay committed relationship...So, there goes your theory...whatever it was...

I knew a man in Wales that was married with children and living and outwardly 'normal, happy life style'. He got divorced and took up with another man in a committed homosexual relationship. Now that he is a practising homosexual, he says he is happy...and this is from a man that was in a committed heterosexual relationship...So, there goes your theory...whatever it was...

[Kerby W-R]

What difference does it make who loves who ? We're talking about love, not hate. What really matters is how well you treat the one you love.