Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think I’ll step aside for a while. Suffice it to say you have a Bible, and you need no other Bible. So re-hashing this stuff could go on and on. I’ll see what other people decide to post.
Fair enough. Didn't know I needed another Bible though...
As an FYI, not that my opinion matters, but I don't think that the Mormon religion is a cult, or demonically inspired. I personally find it's origins to be suspect but I don't think that God is going to send to hell so many people who diligently served Him to the best of their ability and knowledge. And I think that goes for any sect of Christianity...JW's, LDS, Catholics, whatever. So while I may not agree doctrinally, I don't believe in belittling the person. If I have unintentionally done so, please forgive me.
As far as people leaving the Church is concerned, I have already written why most actually do; however, I will expand on this topic somewhat.
* Sin is a big issue, in particular moral issues.
* Word of Wisdom issues: folks drop back into drinking and smoking. They know members can smell the smoke, so they are embarrassed to come to Church. Too, bad, Church is the place for sinners to get help. By not attending, they cut themselves off from aid.
* Tithing issues: They just can’t give up 10% of their gross income.
* Apathy, they just can’t “endure to the end.” Members of this group will occasionally claim it was a doctrinal issue, but they don’t find anything else they agree with.
* Waaaaaay down on the reason list is doctrinal issues. In fact, in all my years in the Church, I have never actually run into any such person.
I don't have words to express how strongly I disagree with this.
It is comforting to believe that people who leave Mormonism do so because of sin. It eliminates the need for Mormons to look at the issues. For many people, it also encourages a feeling of smug superiority (because of course they haven't sinned and they have endured to the end).
The Internet has made it possible for many Mormons who might otherwise feel isolated in their doubts and concerns to connect and share resources. It is not at all rare for Mormons to leave for doctrinal issues.
But I don't think SergeantL and I are ever going to convince each other.
It doesn't say it in my Bible either, but my Bible says nothing about anyone else having any authority save it were the Apostles and those they gave the power to.
Out of curiousity, where did Alma get his authority to baptize from?
Jeeeeeff, he was simply making a point and not referring to any religion in particular.
Hmmm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantL
Uh, one of the reasons Joseph Smith was rejected by the mainstream in his day and by most today, is the belief that the Heavens are sealed and no further revelation is necessary. This is the whole reason you and other non-LDS Christians reject the LDS faith. You believe everything that is necessary for salvation is in the Bible. Non-LDS Christians believe the Bible gives them authority to act in God's name; therefore, revelation is not necessary.
Well it's not the whole reason, but I digress. I don't believe the "Heavens are sealed". I simply don't think additional "doctrines and covenants" are warranted or referred to by Jesus in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantL
It doesn't say it in my Bible either, but my Bible says nothing about anyone else having any authority save it were the Apostles and those they gave the power to. This is why I never accepted non-LDS Christian doctrine. Anyone can go out and form a Church because they believe the Bible gives them license to do so. I have had many quote scripture to me in an attempt to show me where the Bible gives such authority, but I'm not buying it. Joseph Smith is the only person in this dispensation who claims to have been given direct Priesthood authority from the Apostles of old. Now, you may believe Joseph was a huckster, but you will note that no other person in these days makes any such claim. All others claim authority from either the Bible or in the case of the Catholic religion Priesthood authority was passed down by Peter.
Well, I think that most people wouldn't dare to do so. I just feel, from what I have seen and from what my heart tells me that there is something off about Mormonism. I don't think that makes Mormons bad people...but that's just how I view it.
Jesus is now our High Priest. He has taken away the need for a 3rd party, He can and does communicate to those with ears to hear Him. So all this priesthood stuff is something that has passed away with the old laws, IMO. We are all told to be salt and light, and I have yet to see a scripture in the Bible that says that only Catholics and Mormons have the go ahead to have meetings in Jesus' name, OR that all those who do outside of these 2 denoms are less than. The church is not building, denom, or sect--it is all of us.
To the best of my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) Smith placed these tablets he found in a hat with a seeing stone and the words in English appeared before him.
Actually, he didn't put the gold plates in the hat, just the seerstone or the Urim and Thummim.
" 'Day after day, I continued, uninterrupted,' Oliver [Cowderey] reported in 1834, 'to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim....' When Martin had taken dictation from Joseph, they hung a blanket between them to prevent Martin from inadvertently catching a glimpse of the plates contrary to the angel's instructions. By the time Oliver arrived, they did not always follow that practice. Emma said she sat at the same table with Joseph, writing as dictated, with nothing between them. When Oliver took up the job of scribe, he and Joseph translated in the same room where Emma was working. There was no problem with the plates because Joseph looked in the seerstone or the interpreters, and the plates lay covered on the table."
Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism by Richard L. Bushman. Page 97
As far as people leaving the Church is concerned, I have already written why most actually do; however, I will expand on this topic somewhat.
* Sin is a big issue, in particular moral issues.
* Word of Wisdom issues: folks drop back into drinking and smoking. They know members can smell the smoke, so they are embarrassed to come to Church. Too, bad, Church is the place for sinners to get help. By not attending, they cut themselves off from aid.
* Tithing issues: They just can’t give up 10% of their gross income.
* Apathy, they just can’t “endure to the end.” Members of this group will occasionally claim it was a doctrinal issue, but they don’t find anything else they agree with.
* Waaaaaay down on the reason list is doctrinal issues. In fact, in all my years in the Church, I have never actually run into any such person.
I don't have words to express how strongly I disagree with this.
It is comforting to believe that people who leave Mormonism do so because of sin. It eliminates the need for Mormons to look at the issues. For many people, it also encourages a feeling of smug superiority (because of course they haven't sinned and they have endured to the end).
The Internet has made it possible for many Mormons who might otherwise feel isolated in their doubts and concerns to connect and share resources. It is not at all rare for Mormons to leave for doctrinal issues.
But I don't think SergeantL and I are ever going to convince each other.
Well, Mom, as the commercial often states, "your mileage may vary." All I can tell you is that I have been in the Bishopric four times. Sadly, I have sat on more disciplinary councils than I care to remember. Even sadder is the fact that 90% of those who were excommunicated never came back. Letters from members requesting their names be removed from the records of the Church never cited doctrinal problems. In fact, the letter usually states something to the effect they just “don’t live the lifestyle anymore.” Finally, I have never sat on a council where the member was excommunicated for apostasy, which always revolves around doctrinal disagreements.
That might explain some of the difference. I have almost no experience with people who have been excommunicated. (Although even one of the excommunicated Mormons was excommunicated as a result of publishing unflattering Mormon history.)
Almost all of my experience is with ex-Mormons who have had their names removed from the church records.
I just wanted to thank everyone for the stimulating exchange. This is the first time I've posted on a religion forum. I was afraid it might disintegrate into name-calling, but I actually learned something.
Do you think there's a sort of similarity on how Non-Mormon Christians reject the Book of Mormon and how the Jewish faith only believes in the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)?
Can you see how Christianity and later Mormonism (a form of Christianity) added their own stories to the Torah and then the Bible respectively, it's interesting to see how religions evolve and how people's faiths are different.
Hmmmmm, never thought of that. I think the plurality of authors would make it an uneven comparison.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
so many people who diligently served Him to the best of their ability and knowledge. And I think that goes for any sect of Christianity...JW's, LDS, Catholics, whatever. So while I may not agree doctrinally, I don't believe in belittling the person. If I have unintentionally done so, please forgive me. 
