What do Non-Mormon Christians think about the Book of Mormon? (atheist, priest)

[MomtoFour]

Desiree,

I'm so glad you've felt the need to clarify for me my TRUE experience, and that you feel the creation of my brother and what we as a family went through at that time was not "IN FACT, MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE", but merely a "THIRDHAND account of someone else's experience".

I'm sorry that I've offended you. Certainly, what you lived through is your personal experience. What I said in my original post was that it was not your personal experience with the Mormon church.

Given that your brother's father was the one who had direct contact with the Mormon church and that you never heard him tell the story of that experience, I do stand by my assertion that this was a thirdhand account of someone else's experience with the Mormon church.

Maybe I misunderstood your posts and you did have some contact with the Mormon church?

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by desiree253

You are 100% right SergeantL. That was MY misconception or misinformation that I've lived with for many decades. I am truly glad that my experience in this matter was NOT the way the LDS church believes is a proper way. That is why I decided to post the story.. without realizing it, I wanted someone to tell me it wasn't so.. you know? I am truly glad to hear it and can at least lay some of my anguish in that part of my past, to rest. Thank you!

This is good, desiree. I know we Mormons have a reputation of being odd and strange, but we would never treat someone in the fashion you believed. I have often cried during the excommunication process and then really cried when the member stops coming to Church. There is forgiveness and the ability to return to full membership and privilage, but the member must grasp the offered hand.

[Wisteria]

The Savior taught that "by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt. 7:20)
I think this simple quote -- from the Bible (!) sums it up for me. I watch what people do, and then decide. Those who are so quick to defend without actually acting in kind, will be recognized for what they are inside. To be "saved" is irrelevant in the wider scheme of things -- for that is a personal action. I think the Book of Mormon is very interesting -- the Bible was also dictated to man -- why all the hostility toward Mormons because it came later? Good teachings can all be inspired by God. To work in the name of God and to follow the teachings of Christ, helping others less fortunate, caring and living a clean life -- well, they do help others to know them. Don't be so quick to defend those who only talk; judge instead by the acts they do for others.

The LDS Church has a lot of good works on their "Pros" side of the page -- other churches and people may mock them, however, let the fruits show the truth of the Word in action.....

SargeantL: As far as people leaving the Church is concerned, I have already written why most actually do; however, I will expand on this topic somewhat.
• Sin is a big issue, in particular moral issues.
• Word of Wisdom issues: folks drop back into drinking and smoking. They know members can smell the smoke, so they are embarrassed to come to Church. Too, bad, Church is the place for sinners to get help. By not attending, they cut themselves off from aid.
• Tithing issues: They just can’t give up 10% of their gross income.
• Apathy, they just can’t “endure to the end.” Members of this group will occasionally claim it was a doctrinal issue, but they don’t find anything else they agree with.
• Waaaaaay down on the reason list is doctrinal issues. In fact, in all my years in the Church, I have never actually run into any such person.

Here I am, the Agnostic, and yet I have empathy for Mormons. I have attended so many different kinds of Christian churches over the decades, and I still have a soft spot in my heart for Mormons.

The Mormons I know who have left the church (Jack Mormons, they were called then), left because they could not do drugs, smoke, drink, etc. They wanted to be in the church because it was something that felt good to them, however, they also wanted to have their cake and eat it, too. So, they left because of their own weaknesses, and did not hold hostility toward the church.

Coolcats: As for baptisms for the dead … that is due to a belief in universal justice. If all are required to undergo the physical act of baptism to have a chance for salvation, it seems logical that those who never had the chance should some how be given the opportunity. If one does not believe the LDS church has legitimate authority with God, then I’m not quite sure why this would matter to outside observers … in my opinion.

I was baptised as a child in a Presbyterian Church but I wouldn't have any objection to this practice -- I think it's rather sweet, actually. I know many Jewish people have objections, and I understand that, as this is a Christian church. However, as an act that is believed to do good for others, and is harmless, I feel there are good intentions involved.

Gospelsaves: Thirdly, in my experience when they have come to my door they usually continue to keep talking about the BOM, and Joseph Smith. I have a problem with this. As one pastor eloquently stated: “Anybody can come to your door asking you to believe in some thing, a true Christian will be asking if you know someone, and his name is Jesus”. This is the same issue I take up with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you’re going to evangelize as a Christian, you should mainly be talking to people about CHRIST…not the BOM, or visions, or Armageddon, or angels, or Joseph Smith, or anything else. I never understood how you’re ‘winning’ people to Christ if He is not the center of your conversation.

Quite frankly, regular evangelical or other adamant Christians can also be very hard-nosed, even about Jesus. It's a turn off. I found the Mormon missionaries to be very polite, and it seemed that they may be taught to respect boundaries. I cannot bear Christians strong-arming me to agree with them and then condemning me to H..l -- and do you realize how many Christian denominations there are who are all claiming that they are "the" ones?? The competition is overwhelming. I'd rather just stand back and watch everybody else duke it out.

Coolcats: As for acting under proper authority … I agree with you that people not need special authority to live there lives as sincerely as possible. But I believe there is a distinction between acting for ourselves and acting in the name of God. Think about it using a driving analogy. You can make the personal choice to drive responsibly, obey the speed limit, make proper signals etc. However, if you see someone disobeying the traffic laws, you do not have the authority to pull that person over and write a ticket. Only a police officer who has been vested with proper authority can do that.

Again, this shows boundaries. One thing I have noticed on the religious forum is that the Mormons tend to be more respectful, are not in your face, and seem more thoughtful and willing to listen to both sides. They may feel that their church is the preferable one, however, they allow others to feel as strongly about their own, while trying to explain why they feel comfortable in theirs. What's wrong with that? I see so many attacks against Mormons, and part of my respect for them as a religion, is the way in which they stand up straight, understand that others may disagree, and are willing to listen to other points of view. Plus, they do take care of their own, which is a whole lot more than many Christian churches can say....

ImBobbb: many churches claim to be the 'true'church.the pope just last month said that the catholic church is the 'true' church and i'm sure most catholics believe it.missouri synod lutherans forbid their clergy to pray in public with other denominations because they are the 'true' church.i think most denominations think they have it right and others have it wrong so why attack the lds for thinking they have it right?dont most of you who arent lds and active in your church feel that you belong to the 'true'church?why would a non-lds care one way or the other about proxy baptism?if you dont buy that the lds are right it has no force on you one way or another.if the lds,baptists,jw's,muslims,scientologists...

I agree. Too many Christians run around saying they all believe in Jesus, yet, when push comes to shove, it's really church against church. Maybe we ought to have a National Church Football League to see who's the toughest!

Diseree: Whew.. I feel better now.. Sorry if this offensive saga offends anyone. It certainly offended me and my family when it happened. I went for many many years as a child having an aversion to church's of any kind due to this negative experience shaping my young mind. I'm glad to hear many many people have positive experiences with Mormonism. To each their own.

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. Your brother's father sounds like a fine man who made a mistake. He sounds as if he was very kind to you, too, and your care for him shows. If anything, his guilt and sadness about his actions can show how strongly moral he felt, and how sad he was to have failed the church by falling in love with your mother. However, he sounds like he was a kind man who cared deeply about his families and his faith. You were probably very lucky to have known him. God bless his soul.

Dawn: I think Satan is very able to mix in lies with truth and make people believe it is true.

Yes, this is true. Therefore, no church is immune, and I think it important to recognize this simple fact. As it is said, "People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones."

[Throx]

I don't like complex religious dogma in any form, it tends to be interpreted in too many ways. This is why most religions have many offshoots and factions.

I do have more respect for Mormons and Jews, because they don't believe the practicioners of other religions are going to hell. They also tend to put more focus on GOD and not some alleged "savior" who supposedly died for our sins. That just seems like a load of BS to me.

[imbobbbb]

i cant figure out what 'satans ' or some 'demons'motive would be in bringing forth the bom.the bom doesnt detract or cancel out anything from the new testament.it trys to get people to lead a moral,charitable life and get closer to God and Jesus.it encourages a healthy diet and lifestyle.while i havent read the entire book[i have read the whole doctrine%covenants section,and a good bit of the rest]i havent read anything in it so far that does anything negative.you may not feel it is divinely inspired ,[i'm not really sold myself]but nothing in the book leads me to feel there is anything evil in it either.lds,protestants,and catholics share most theology so why all the drama?maybe because i'm not very religious i can look at this less emotionally.to be any type of devout christian requires you to believe in many extrordinary things[virgin birth,Christs resserection,etc],the lds just believe in a few more extrordinary things then the rest of you.

[Throx]

Originally Posted by imbobbbb

i cant figure out what 'satans ' or some 'demons'motive would be in bringing forth the bom.the bom doesnt detract or cancel out anything from the new testament.it trys to get people to lead a moral,charitable life and get closer to God and Jesus.it encourages a healthy diet and lifestyle.while i havent read the entire book[i have read the whole doctrine%covenants section,and a good bit of the rest]i havent read anything in it so far that does anything negative.you may not feel it is divinely inspired ,[i'm not really sold myself]but nothing in the book leads me to feel there is anything evil in it either.lds,protestants,and catholics share most theology so why all the drama?maybe because i'm not very religious i can look at this less emotionally.to be any type of devout christian requires you to believe in many extrordinary things[virgin birth,Christs resserection,etc],the lds just believe in a few more extrordinary things then the rest of you.

Oh my God....You are absolutely right!

[desiree253]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

This is good, desiree. I know we Mormons have a reputation of being odd and strange, but we would never treat someone in the fashion you believed. I have often cried during the excommunication process and then really cried when the member stops coming to Church. There is forgiveness and the ability to return to full membership and privilage, but the member must grasp the offered hand.

Thank you very much for your understanding SergeantL. I seemed to get off on the wrong foot in this thread and wasn't meaning to be rude. I tend to be opinionated and sometimes my mouth flies off before my logical brain kicks in! I promise I'm working on this

I also want to say that he did return to full membership and remained a faithful member until he died at the ripe age of 86. He lived, for the most part, a very good life, and he loved his faith and the LDS church very much.

Again, I thank you for helping me to see the LDS more realistically.

[imbobbbb]

sergeantl,maybe you could tell me what people do to get excommunicated?is it done very often?is it only done for serious moral offences or could it happen due to lack of attendance at church or not tithing?

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by imbobbbb

sergeantl,maybe you could tell me what people do to get excommunicated?is it done very often?is it only done for serious moral offences or could it happen due to lack of attendance at church or not tithing?

First, excommunication is a last resort, and thankfully, it was my experience that such matters were comparatively infrequent. I have seen men and women commit serious moral violations, who were not excommunicated. Authorities attempt to take all factors under consideration so as to arrive at a fair and just process of repentance. I know this will sound strange, but excommunication is not considered punishment. It is considered the first step in the repentance process and an act of mercy. Once the member is off the Church roles, they are no longer bound by their covenants, violation of which is a BIG NO NO.

Next, moral violations are not the only reason a person will be excommunicated. I can’t remember them all but serious criminal violations will get a person excommunicated. One can also be excommunicated for openly opposing Church doctrine. Let's face it; if someone rejects the doctrine, it's time for that person to find another church.

Finally, non-attendance, failure to pay tithing, smoking and drinking are not grounds for any discipline, other than the member would not be found worthy to hold a Temple recommend, so they would not be able to enter the Temple.

[Throx]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

I posted this in the thread about the Bible being the Word of God, because it got me thinking about other books that are supposedly the Word of God.

I'm not Mormon, but I was wondering what Non-Mormon Christians think about the Book of Mormon (Another Testament of Jesus Christ).

Do you think that Smith was crazy and made it all up?

Was it not the word of God?

If it was, do you believe everything it says, even if you're not a Mormon?

Do you not believe in it because it was written (translated) in the early 1800's and not 2000 years ago or older?

Do you really think Jesus appeared in the America's after his death?

If you don't believe the book, why not?

Do you think now a days, like in Smith's case, God can tell someone to find something buried or directly talk to them to write down new stories for people to read and follow?

I'm just curious to see what people's thoughts are.

I wasn't there so I can't ever know. Pretty successful religion it blossomed into eh?


Mormans are kinder on the personal level than many religions.