Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Chancellor KENT, the great commentator on American law, speaking as chief justice of the supreme court of New York, said: "The people of this state, in common with the people of this country, profess the general doctrines of Christianity as the rule of their faith and practice; ... The free, equal, and undisturbed enjoyment of religious opinion, whatever it may be, and free and decent discussions on any religious [SIZE=2]subject, is granted and secured; ... the case assumes that we are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply ingrafted upon Christianity, and not upon the doctrines or worship of those impostors [Mahomet or of the Grand Lama]."
Those quotes explain what some of us mean by a 'Christian nation,' absent all the official national religion, oppression of non-Christian extremism.
That is not the conclusion I draw from the quote but one that claims ((see underlined) that the foundation was based on Christianity and that makes this a "Christian Nation". This is indeed different approach compared to pushing for the same idea of "Christian Nation" which uses majority as an excuse. Whereas your quote highlights Christian fundamentalism at its core, that denounces other religions to profess greatness of Christianity. You're claiming morality of this country being based on Christian ideals that is, in no way, shared with any other religion.
The founders wanted to avoid just that, by pushing for a wall of separation between the government and religions.
Funny because Buddhism can also be applied to the Constitution, etc if you want it to. A majority doesnt automatically set it as is as one of the Pillars of the Contitution is to "Defend the tyranny of the majority from the Minority".
That is not the conclusion I draw from the quote but one that claims ((see underlined) that the foundation was based on Christianity and that makes this a "Christian Nation". This is indeed different approach compared to pushing for the same idea of "Christian Nation" which uses majority as an excuse. Whereas your quote highlights Christian fundamentalism at its core, that denounces other religions to profess greatness of Christianity. You're claiming morality of this country being based on Christian ideals that is, in no way, shared with any other religion.
The founders wanted to avoid just that, by pushing for a wall of separation between the government and religions.
I don't use majority as the reason. I'm not claiming Christianity is superior to other religions or no religion. All I'm claiming is that as the court said in its decision, 'American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. ...These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."
If you don't think most people don't use the term 'Christian nation' as I do, fine. But as I use it, I'm historically correct.
You know I have read both the Constitution of The United States and the Bill of Rights numerous different times, I have also read The Constitution of The Iroquois Confederacy of which The Constitution Of The United States is modeled after and nowhere in any of those documents is there any reference to god or any kind of religion, so I can not see how anyone can say that this is a Christian Nation founded on Christian principles, that's just a myth that Christians have propagated and wish to continue.
Just for the sake of references here are the links to those three documents. Read them and educate yourself and you'll see what I mean.
Aside from it being 118 years old, legally imprecise, no longer binding, philosophically vague, and later explicitly contradicted by Justice Brewer himself, what did you expect us to glean from that?
I quoted that decision Because it did Not argue that the laws in the United States should enforce Christianity or reflect solely Christian concerns and beliefs, or that Christianity is the established religion or the people are compelled in any manner to support it.
Despite those caveats, which I agree are legally and historically accurate, the court and other courts, and presidents, have called this a Christian nation.
What your atheist tract fails to do is tell you that in the rest of his book Brewer defends the court decision with the many civil constitutions, organic laws, official declarations, and public customs that he maintained are tied to the Christian religion and confirm the Christian character of the American republic.
Why is it that you insist that YOUR reality counts, but the reality recognized by Zekester or MightyQueen doesn't.
I GET what you are saying. I disagree with it. You say it is what it is. I say it isn't. My opinion counts just as much as yours. The REALITY you speak of does not exist.
There is no "my" reality...or "your" reality...if we are assessing the same thing. Then there is only ACTUAL reality.
I never said "my" reality is all that counts relative to this issue...just REALITY.
It's not a matter of "opinion". Your "opinion" does count as much as mine, or anyone else's for that matter...but what is REAL, is what is REAL.
You can disagree with an opinion, but you can't disagree with REALITY.
And you cannot make REALITY go away by denying it's existence.
See, just like they say, "The House of Representatives was Democratic before the last election, but now it is Republican"...and the government speaks of "Red States" and "Blue States". Is that because the HoR or those states are 100% Republican or Democrat? No...they base their designation on the REALITY of it's ACTUAL makeup.
Based on the Constitution the people in those states are free to chose to belong to whatever party they want, or to not belong to any party...by law the government can't control it...so we then define them by whatever the REALITY is of what they chose to be on their own.
The government refers to "White Schools" and "Black Schools"...they don't legally compel the racial makeup of the students, and they are never all one race...but they are defined by the REALITY of the majority of the racial makeup.
Based on the Constitution we don't have to be a "Christian Nation"...but WE ARE ANYWAY (based on the way the government defines such things)...so the REALITY IS that WE ARE. And that isn't "my reality", it's simply REALITY.
Many American Christians, including some in this thread, talk as if they truly believe that the Ten Commandments are actually written into the Constitution itself, and can't for the life of them comprehend that the U.S. government is secular in nature. This fact just sails right over their heads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
And WHAT IS is a nation with no established religion.
The country called Turkey. And spiritually free and well-educated. Unencumbered with unnecessary confrontation and ideologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Not necessarily. The founding fathers did not allow their religious views to taint the formation of the constitution.
Exactly. They knew only too well that smell of rotting minds. Or was it the same smell, but coming from the imprisoned atheist protestors? (which, I'm betting, is exactly where a nation vigorously administered, absolutely, by someone like Jerry Falwell or his ilk, would soon-enough place all us independent thinkers? Until, you understand, we "came around"...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannedAdvice
√ More than half of the country does not attend church regularly.
√ Labels matter. And labeling our nation a "Christian Nation" is patently incorrect and damaging.
*You're in the porn business and you think abortion should be outlawed? Damn, have you been by shot by a feminist yet?
Your first two points: BINGO!
Actually, Canned, Gldn treats his ladies with considerable respect and, understandably, a degree of well-earned "awe", since they do represent the highest form of human female physical evolution ()
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
According to the rule of the majority, America is...
- A White Nation (at least as of now)
- A Female Nation (since female gender is the majority)
Now, would any proponent of "America is a Christian Nation" stand up and acknowledge that?
You should also add - A predominantly Hispanic Nation (give it a year or two, tops...)
and...
A Nation where almost every graduate of any non-Christian technical or professional school agrees with Evolution and an ancient earth.
Now then; we have a more truthful statistic and background. Unlikely that such people would really, on pain of death if they lied, admit to being a true and practicing Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannedAdvice
I We live in an INCREDIBLY ignorant nation, as compared to other western nations.
Sadly, CA, this is too very true. We also do have the largest relict population of wishy-washy Christians, who distinquish themselves often by their nonsensical, biased, lop-sided and repressive behaviors. Esp. when it comes to marching, slogan-yelling "pitchforks & torches" protests around their local School Board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
It does seem we Americans know less about America than the rest of the world knows about us.
Not only are we apathetic, but it seems most of us can't even spell apathetic, and don't care they can't.
I...ummm... what was it you were... oh wait; I wanna watch this new McDonald's ad! Then we're all going to church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
You know I have read both the Constitution of The United States and the Bill of Rights numerous different times, I have also read The Constitution of The Iroquois Confederacy of which The Constitution Of The United States is modeled after and nowhere in any of those documents is there any reference to god or any kind of religion, so I can not see how anyone can say that this is a Christian Nation founded on Christian principles, that's just a myth that Christians have propagated and wish to continue.
Just for the sake of references here are the links to those three documents. Read them and educate yourself and you'll see what I mean.
Oh ptsum! You and your tired old Iroquois stuff Stop with that, whydon'cha!! It's sooo offensive to those of us with landed-gentry status! It's almost like you're suggesting we canabalized, or is it plaguarized, some grub-eating sub-culture's abo-ideas! The very idea that they could have anything useful on their agenda!! I mean, lest you forget your place, I'll remind you that we white folk are essentially direct descendants of The Holy British Empiah, ewlde chep!
So I warn you: keep your socio-cultural distance, and we'll let you know when you can come on into our church for your re-culturalization processing.(After all, we've been so very successful in other countries in subju... I mean... correcting the savages. Hawaii, Alaska, S. America, Africa, China and so on.) Why; just Look at our list of these successes in ministering to the spiritually bereft like yourselves! And soon, we'll be able to add The Americas to that handsome list! I'm so proud to be a Colonialist!
So for now... don't worry; you and your tribe will benefit and enjoy mandatory Church and our new laws! (Oh, but I must ask you to put down those obsidian-tipped spears. After all, you might hurt yourselves!)
Now then; be a good little native lad, and bring us more wild game and furs, and otherwise, be quiet! There's the good savage. And remember to be quiet and respectful... we're holding a prayer service here! (... and Thank God for the Church and our new Christian Nation, eh, Selma?)
What would you add or remove? Would it extend to, let's say, banning heavy metal music, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings movies? The latest Trinity Werewolf movies? Biology texts in schools? Would you add a mandatory school prayer each morning (I'll assume you'd ban the mumbling of any other doctrine's ideas, like a good Buddhist or Muslim chant?). How about attendance to church on Sundays?
It's not theory, it's practical. We are not a Christian nation. A solid 15-20% of this country considers themselves secular/atheist, and millions more identify as Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoist, etc. I don't think we're any of those, either. More than half of the country does not attend church regularly.
Labels matter. And labeling our nation a "Christian Nation" is patently incorrect and damaging.
You're in the porn business and you think abortion should be outlawed? Damn, have you been by shot by a feminist yet? That's gotta be at the mountaintop of woman-hating, right there.
Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ." James Madison
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some point-form responses....
