Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
More recently, I began studying NDE's and tales of Reincarnation. I was downright shocked at the stories available if one merely bothers to look. NDE's by the thousands, many of which sound eerily familiar. One story is but an anecdote. Two is a coincidence. Three is a trend. By the time you get to thousands, it means something.
False logic.
If you want to scientifically prove NDE's are "real" then you will need to use the scientific method.
That means you'll need to take about 2,698 new-born infants or infants less than 1 year old and secret them away to a "sterile" location and then heavily monitor their lives.
You'll have to censor everything and anything to do with concepts of religion, gods, life after death, heavens, hells, etc. That means you'll have to remove words like "bible," "church/synagogue/mosque," priest, clergy, rabbi, monk, deity et al from every dictionary, thesaurus, book, video or film they might ever see.
So when those people are in their 60s, 70s and 80s and die they have never heard the word "bible" and don't know what it is, never heard the word "church" and don't know what it is, never heard the word "heaven" and don't know what it is and so on.
And if some of them had NDEs, what would that prove?
It would prove NDEs are not based on culture, and nothing more.
You're own thesis is flawed, because no one had NDEs and then suddenly everyone started having them as soon as the idea of NDEs was communicated around the world.
Psychology has phrase to describe that phenomenon, but I can't remember what it is (how embarrassing is that?).
We saw the same thing with, um, UFO abductions. They never happened, and then they happened to one person allegedly, and then as the idea of alien abduction is communicated around the world it snowballs and it seems like every other day someone got abducted, although now it has tapered off, sort of like NDE stories.
Of everything possible to know about the human brain, our knowledge encompasses about 10% of that knowledge.
When the human body is under severe stress, the brain can do extraordinary things. I know, because I suffer from PTSD. They found me sitting with my pistol in one hand and bayonet in the other. What to know what happened?
So do I.
I don't remember squat, and the only reason I know anything, is because my troops told me. The brain sometimes shuts down as a protective measure to protect you.
You see that a lot for people that experience violence and even when people don't experience violence per se, rather what they experience is horrific.
It is entirely possible that NDEs are the brain's way of protecting people when under severe stress. Everyone is familiar with NDE stories and they are quite pleasant and the subconscious mind might seize upon that to help the body through a stressful experience, like surgery or dying etc.
NDEs are culturally contaminated, because if you read enough stories, you'll see that they are slightly different dependent on the culture. That is the first clue they aren't real, or perhaps not that they aren't real, but rather they are dream-like in quality, as in hallucinatory.
And it's funny how no one who has an NDE ever goes to hell, in spite of the many violations of the 10 Commandments they've committed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss
Regarding reincarnation, there are some amazing tales out there.
But that doesn't prove reincarnation.
It's quite possible memories are imprinted on DNA and passed onto generations, then later reactivated somehow, much in the same way instincts are passed on. I mean no one tells you to blink when something moves toward your eyes, yet you do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss
That we live in a digital simulation. A giant MMORPG, and if you will.
And just like an NDE, the only reason you say that is because you've seen Matrix and its sequels 5,000 times (I've never seen it and don't really care to).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
since God IS life and agape love is the central characteristic.
Love is subjective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
Do we need a measured, lawyer-approved Mission Statement in order to procede unimpeded through this life?
Let me talk to my publicist and public relations consultant and I'll get back to you on that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
Fact is, Dottie The 20 yr old Wonder Cat...
...is obviously possessed by some demon if not Satan himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
This is a very simple question to answer.
1.There must be a God. Every house has a builder. This world and all the life in it is obviously the result of a incredibly powerful creator. Life does not happen by chance.
So why did god stick us in the ass-end of the universe?
The Milky Way is one of more than 150 billion galaxies and our Solar System one of several hundred billion solar systems.
Wow, I feel really special, just like a someone on "hold" calling a customer service department.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
2. It makes sense that this God would reveal Himself.
How do you god is a he?
Men don't create life, women do.
How do you know god is even humanoid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
3. Assuming He reveals Himself, He would not leave it up to just one person who lived at one point in time.
That's right. God shows himself to Adam and Eve, tells them not to do something knowing full well they would do it anyway and then gets angry because they did, and banish them from his garden.
Then this wonderful god holds a contest between two brothers knowing full well who the winner would be in advance and knowing that the loser would kill the winner, and then he gets upset because what he knew would happen actually happens.
Then he disappears and shows up eons later and yells at the plants for being evil, and causes a flood that kills all life on Earth except for Noah and the Nefilim, and then this god who knew he was going to do that acts surprised that he finds favor with Noah even though he knew beforehand he would.
Then he murders a lot of people and makes a lot of promises to the Hebrews knowing full well they would never keep their end of the bargain and then he gets mad because they didn't keep their end of the bargain.
Then he disappears for 9 centuries never to be seen again until he shows up as Jesus who jumps on a cross and says, "Love me, I dying for you idiots."
Then he disappears for 2,000 years, unless you're a Mormon, in which case he only disappears for 18 centuries -- uh, oh, maybe we're onto something here -- 18 equals 2 x 9 and 9 is the number of centuries god disappeared the first time.
Sounds like a wonderful god worthy of my praise and adulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
He would reveal Himself over time to many. This is exactly what the witness of the Bible is.
Well, he revealed himself to Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, but you don't believe that.
And he revealed himself to some nut who claimed Earth would end May 21st and when it didn't he claimed Earth would end October 9th or whenever it was and when he didn't...well, I guess he'll pick another date out of a hat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
4. This God would be good. In all I study from the Bible, God is indeed good merciful, kind and forgiving. Hope this answers your question.
I take it you haven't got to the part where god sends a pack of bears to maul a bunch of young children for laughing at a bald guy.
Sounds good, merciful, kind and forgiving to me. I have to wonder what you had against Hitler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
The Bible is so sexist it's laughable really.
Um, excuse me, but you're mocking an highly enlightened being there.
To me, raping a woman is reprehensible, but to Yahweh and Jesus, raping a woman is fun and profitable and here's no punishment for brutally raping and sodomizing a woman so long as you marry her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
I don't see any God having sexual organs.
Of course not. It isn't called "The Book of the Wars of Yahweh" for nothing.
I mean, if Yahweh had actually ever won even one single war, the book would have been called "The Book of the Fabulous and Glorious Wars of the Ever Victorious Yahweh."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
I'd of been beheaded a long time ago if I lived back in the bible days because I wouldn't have been able to keep my mouth shut!
Not true. You would have been acculturated and not known any differently.
You're own thesis is flawed, because no one had NDEs and then suddenly everyone started having them as soon as the idea of NDEs was communicated around the world.
Your statement has no foundation. IF NDE's are real and represent actual after life experiences, it makes sense that only "recently" have we started to hear about them, because until not that long ago (relative to history, not last week) the medical technology did not exist to bring people back from the brink, nor did the communications technology exist to share stories on a widescale basis.
Quote:
We saw the same thing with, um, UFO abductions. They never happened, and then they happened to one person allegedly, and then as the idea of alien abduction is communicated around the world it snowballs and it seems like every other day someone got abducted, although now it has tapered off, sort of like NDE stories.
Well, as a potential abductee, I can tell you it was a real experience, and that beforehand I was completely unaware of the phenomenom. Granted, I have no actual reason to think it was an abduction, it's just no other idea fits the facts. (Briefly, myself and 2 other people had a few hours go completely missing, with contradictory behaviors, and almost didn't realize it.)
Quote:
NDEs are culturally contaminated, because if you read enough stories, you'll see that they are slightly different dependent on the culture. That is the first clue they aren't real, or perhaps not that they aren't real, but rather they are dream-like in quality, as in hallucinatory.
And you've just proved that you haven't read enough. For if you had, you'd know that while they are remarkably similar, even across cultures, they are described as "more real" than normal consciousness by an overwhelming majority of experiencers. Since you seem to think the opposite is true, you clearly have done little or no actual research on the topic, rather you're probably just parroting what others have said, or what you expect, or need, to be true based upon your belief system.
Quote:
And it's funny how no one who has an NDE ever goes to hell, in spite of the many violations of the 10 Commandments they've committed.
Actually, while they're rare, hellish NDE's do exist. I don't believe in hell, so a lack of hellish NDE's does not deter their credibility, rather I believe a persons expectations dictate what they'll get. Christians get Christ. Muslims see Allah. Agnostics might get "The Light". Etc.
I personally know someone who experienced it, having never heard of it beforehand. He experienced a classic experience.
Quote:
It's quite possible memories are imprinted on DNA and passed onto generations, then later reactivated somehow, much in the same way instincts are passed on. I mean no one tells you to blink when something moves toward your eyes, yet you do it.
I'm not talking about instincts for survival.
I'm talking about stories like (note: I'm making this particular one up, but I've heard ones that were similar and as detailed) "In my past life, I was LT JG John Marshall Griggs, I flew P51's off the USS Carl Vincent, and on September 14, 1943, I was shot down on a mission over Okinawa. My squadron mates were John Doe, Jim Doe, Fred Doe, and Carl Doe."
And when John, Jim, Fred, Carl, and Naval records are checked, the story checks out completely. And the child, upon meeting the still living, but now very old John, Jim, Fred, and Carl, recognize each one.
Does it prove anything? No. Is it meaningless? I'd have to say no.
Quote:
And just like an NDE, the only reason you say that is because you've seen Matrix and its sequels 5,000 times (I've never seen it and don't really care to).
Apparently you didn't read my post. I gave scientific evidence predicted by a virtual reality thesis that is experimentally backed up. Evidence that specifically excludes a physically real thesis. If you're going to reject my thesis, please address the science, rejecting the idea out of hand without doing so reduces you to defending that the earth is flat because god said so.
Quote:
So why did god stick us in the ass-end of the universe?
The Milky Way is one of more than 150 billion galaxies and our Solar System one of several hundred billion solar systems.
My personal feeling on that is that everywhere life can exist, it does, and I expect it can exist in places and under circumstances we can't even imagine. Just on this planet, we have life on volcanic vents on the ocean floor. Life in the coldest environments on the planet. Recently discovered, and previously thought impossible, silicon based lifeforms.
I think the universe is teeming with life.
You're right. We (humanity) are not special. We're not particularly evolved nor intelligent. We're likely one of billions of species that exist here, in one of billions of different realities.
I always had doubts about bible god. I see god as something else entirely. bible god acted like a terrible two if his little humans misbehaved. I still doubt much of the bible based on the god they present. A true god would never get angry.
Of course they are real. People were near death. They had an experience. Therefore it is a near death experience. No one died, hence the name "near" death. Such experiences are very real.
Are the evidence for the supernatural nonsense people append to them in retrospect? Not in the slightest no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss
(Briefly, myself and 2 other people had a few hours go completely missing, with contradictory behaviors, and almost didn't realize it.)
I have had a few nights out like that too. Usually I blame alcohol, not aliens from another world. I have heard a few girls describe such experiences too. They lost some memories and also woke up feeling like they had been.... probed. Again we blame rohypnol, not aliens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss
(note: I'm making this particular one up
Maybe on a subject this far reaching we can stick to the facts and not things you have made up then? Might help. To answer your question "Is it meaningless?". Yes. You just made it up.
I see no evidence for afterlives, alien abductions or any of that. Just a lot of "what if" and a lot of "There is stuff we do not understand yet" and a lot of "I just made this up but...."
Are the evidence for the supernatural nonsense people append to them in retrospect? Not in the slightest no.
And on what profound wisdom are you coming to this conclusion. People float out of their bodies, see things they couldn't possibly see that are later verified, hear things they couldn't possibly hear that are later verified. For this to happen, it means, out of necessity, that our life force exists separate from our physical body. There is no other possible conclusion.
Quote:
They lost some memories and also woke up feeling like they had been.... probed. Again we blame rohypnol, not aliens.
None of the people involved was using mind altering substances of any kind, and though I cannot completely rule out some kind of drugging, I consider it just short of impossible.
Quote:
Maybe on a subject this far reaching we can stick to the facts and not things you have made up then? Might help. To answer your question "Is it meaningless?". Yes. You just made it up.
The fact remains that real people exist who have real experiences like I described. That I made up an example doesn't change that. My example, put forth on it's own as evidence is in fact meaningless. The REAL events like my example are not.
When did people see and hear things they could not have seen or heard exactly? Citation please. I have read no such research at all. Just hear say and anecdote.
To my knowledge not one of these experiments has yet returned a positive result. No one ever comes back saying "I left my body, I looked down on the room, and weirdly there was a large unmissable digital read out on top of that press over there showing the number 98-59 in red".
Yet so far I have not heard even one such positive result under controlled conditions. Have you? Or are you just making them up because they sound good like you already admitted to wholesale making up stories that are not true to use as evidence?
When did people see and hear things they could not have seen or heard exactly? Citation please. I have read no such research at all. Just hear say and anecdote.
You can find them yourself, start at www.near-death.com, when you're done there (which will take months or longer) you can head over to www.nderf.org. I read one (no, I don't have a link, it was many months ago) where a woman died, hovered out of her body, and saw some shoes on a ledge of the building that she couldn't possibly have seen that, when checked, were there. Another where a patient was flatlined and watching the doctors work on his (her?) body, and saw a nurse put his dentures in a drawer. Several days later, when they couldn't find them, he told them where they were. Still others where conversations were heard and accurately recounted, despite the fact that the patient was clinically dead. Here's one to start you off.
Yes, I am aware than an effort is being made to double-blind see if objective things are noted. In fact, the study has a name that is escaping me at the moment. I am not presently aware if they have achieved any results, positive or negative.
Quote:
Yet so far I have not heard even one such positive result under controlled conditions. Have you? Or are you just making them up because they sound good like you already admitted to wholesale making up stories that are not true to use as evidence?
You are mischaracterizing my using an example (which was based on this very real story), because I was being lazy and didn't feel like looking it up. Well, now I have, and now you'll need to debunk the actual case instead of just accusing me of making stuff up. Good luck!
You can also read "Evidence of the Afterlife" by MD and Cardiologist Dr. Jeffery Long. I believe you can buy an e-book version for under $10. (Disclosure: I don't know Dr. Long and have no financial interest whatsoever in the book.)
And just like an NDE, the only reason you say that is because you've seen Matrix and its sequels 5,000 times (I've never seen it and don't really care to).
when lots of people adhering to the same health/religious practices as me, begin dying in large numbers and younger than me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
