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I'm always amazed at how people that are loud and proud about not being Christians are the ones that seem to always find the threads talking about it.
If you're not a Christian, why do you care if we are?
I don't care if you are a christian, but when threads are on the religion/philosophy forum then they are open to all to post. If christians only want input from co religionists then go to the christianity forum.
I always find it the other way. It is the christians who are the loudest and least respectful of non believers then when they get called on it they resort to insults.
First, how do you break up the quotes like that? New here, haven't figure that one out yet.
I DM'd you.
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Thanks for your reply. You got me.
That word "judge" has always been a tricky word for me.
I think the true definition of the word, and how I (and possibly some others) perceive the word are very different.
I am sure somebody will come along and shred the comment above apart. Whatever.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say, is that when some people "judge" they automatically dislike or disapprove of a person and therefore dismiss them, or worse.
When in reality, as you said, the true definiton of "judge" is to form an opinion. I don't think it's wrong for people to form opinions and sometimes base their actions on those opinions.
I don't think it's wrong either. I just wish people would state their judgment/opinion in a better way. For example, hiker45 said to you, "If you don't believe what Jesus says, you are not a Christian. I'm sure you can wrap your mind around that!!"
(What hiker45 should have said was, "If you don't believe what I'm telling you Jesus said, you are not a Christian"... because what he/she says Jesus said in that verse is not actually what He said.)
BUT, even more so, the way hiker should have put it was, "In my opinion, if you don't believe what Jesus says, you aren't a Christian." Would that have hurt your feelings, or would you have respected him for being cordial, but stating his belief? I bet it's the latter. Then, in the future, if you had any questions, you may have gone to him/her...but I bet the way they put it, you wouldn't go to him/her in the future.
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I don't believe it's right to mistreat another person simply because we don't agree with them or their choices.
I agree, it's never right to mistreat another because we don't agree with them.
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But I also don't think that stating your beliefs that some will go to hell, is necessarily "mistreating" them.
And although it hurt my feelings when hiker45 just told me "I'm not a Christian", I respect, that he is entilted to his opinion.
So you don't think hiker "mistreated" you by his/her comment? I do. You respect that he is entitled to his opinion, but do you respect him?
It's all in HOW we get our judgment/opinion across.
A good Christian believes that all Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. are going to hell. The Pagans and Wiccans are REALLY going to hell.
Just another reason I decided I didn't want to be a "good Christian" anymore. Those people are living their lives in a good way (maybe even better than most Christians), are obeying the laws of their spiritual books, and serving their God in the way they believe is correct. Yet, if I want to be a good Christian I have to believe they are all going to hell. Ugh.
But, in modern day application, what comes to mind, is Wicca and not God's but Goddess... I don't know a lot abotu Wicca. I DO know Christians have a REAL problem with it. AS hiker45 mentioned. Also, other Religions...buddhism and islam. I don't know a lot about either, but I believe they also believe in their own version of a god.
Sometimes I think it's possible we worship the same God. We just have different names for Him and different books of directions (Bible's).
Maybe that's immature too. I know know. If it is, so be it.
I don't think that's immature at all. I think it's being compassionate, and realizing that you may be in the same boat as them if you were born some place else. It's what they have been taught all their lives. It's what they sincerely believe, just as Christians sincerely believe what they do.
PS...Please keep in mind that hiker45 is an atheist. So he/she can easily take things from the bible out of context, and add his/her own opinion. Which is what happened with John 14:6. I think he/she was just trying to make a point, but since you are sincerely trying to find the truth, you don't really need sarcasm that could confuse you even further.
Please also keep in mind that while I am not an atheist, I do not believe the bible is God's word.
mzjamiedawn, extra thanks to you for several things!
I agree that hiker45 could have said things in a better way. Did I feel mistreated? hmmm I didn't feel mistreated, but maybe that's cuz I've experienced much worse! Much to my suprise, maybe I HAVE developed a thicker skin than I thought. You see, at times I've been labled as "sensitive". lol
I was really suprised to hear that hiker45 is an athiest!
Although I am well aware that many athiests are well versed in the Bible, it appeared to me that he was presenting himself as a Christian.
It just seems a bit deceitful and underhanded. Talk about a wolf in sheeps clothing!
Sorry for the overkill on smileys today. Just one of those days I guess.
I probably missed some of your questions. Sorry. I spend WAY to much time on here yesterday! Although I admit it certainly was interesting, and I love the opportunity to ask questions and hear peoples different perspectives on everything, so I know I'll be making return visits. Hopeful I will just do better with my time management.
I haven't read, the entire Bible, I have quite a ways to go. But from what I have read, I have seen things that appeared to be contradictions.
Have you ever encounterned something that appeared to be a contradiction? If you have, how did you make sense of it?
How do you know which "directions" to follow?
The first think that comes to mind (and remember I admitted I can't quote scripture) are teachings about "judgment".
This is one of the things that has troubled me...
Judge not lest ye be judged has always stuck with me...I thought it meant that it is not for men to judge one another.
Yet when I looked into these questions I found examples where we are enouraged to judge - I can't site the examples, but I did see them.
If you are extremely familar with the Bible you probably would know which references are applicable to this question.
If you want me to look up the info and get back to you, I can do that.
You have a lot of questions regarding interpretations and contradictions in the bible. Something I like about Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and even some of the more traditional protestant denominations is the rich theology that helps followers begin to make sense of everything in sort of a logical, well-documented and well-referenced fashion.
My experience with the many evangelical type churches is that the responses to any scripture or theology type questions are shallow and unsatisfying, essentially leaving those that analyze the scripture they ought to follow out in the cold.
Sometimes I think of the "desert island" scenario. Imagine you gave a bible to a people or group of people who had no knowledge of what it was or the history and traditions of the religion. What would they come up with? Somehow I doubt it would resemble anything we know as Christianity. The point being, interpretations and context, and having a well-documented and robust way of looking at things is very important.
There are so many questions on this thread but I’ll try to tackle the main one. I am a bible believing Christian. I think there are those truly seeking answers on this so I’ll try to answer this as best as I can.
What I love about God is that he is always perfect. God is always balanced. Never out of balance.
Where I think people get confused is when they pull aspects of God out of balanced.
Meaning they focus solely on his judgment, and not on his love…(why is God so mean that he would send people to hell?)……..or vice versa they focus solely on his love, and not on his judgment (God loves everyone and therefore there is no way he could ever send anyone to hell).
These statements are out of balance. God is a God of order. You can’t focus on the Love of God without looking at the Judgment of God…..and you can’t focus on the Judgment of God without looking at the Love of God.
But if you take a look at the bible the LOVE of God always comes before Judgment. Always!
John 3:16:
For God so LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes on him shall not PERISH but have everlasting life.
Love is always BEFORE the judgment in the bible. The bible says before time began God had the plan of Salvation to redeem humanity from this horrible state of sin and the affects of it.
People have an opportunity to repent and receive forgiveness. That verse above says “whosoever”. Anybody can come to God and be forgiven. Anybody.
The bible says “All have fallen short of the Glory of God”, not some…not just a few….ALL. You’re guilty before God. If you broke even 1 on his commandments your guilty. And the punishment for that is hell.
It’s no different than in a human court. If your guilty and go to court and beg and plead for mercy, and throw yourself on the mercy of the court ….and the judge really believes you’re sorry ….the judge may lessen your sentence, he may do what he can to try and help you.
But if you come into court and have an attitude of “I didn’t do anything wrong, I’m not guilty, I don’t care what the judge says”…. (or on the case of some “I don’t even believe the judge exist) at some point a judge is going to put down a verdict, and punish you if that judge is not corrupt. A righteous judge is going to sentence and punish the guilty. And you the guilty have no say in what that punishment is. You don’t get to tell the judge what sentence you would like. They tell YOU what you’re going to get as punishment.
God is a righteous judge and can’t just look away from sin. I mean if someone murders your family member and the guilty person got caught…. would you want the judge to just look the other way and say “well I can’t punish them, they are a person and you know I just love people, so let me just let them go”….of course not! Guilt requires punishment. The only difference is in God’s court his son Jesus has taken all the punishment for every sin ever committed past, present, and future….. IF you accept his Son as having taken your punishment. It’s paid for IF you believe in Jesus….that’s why God can let you go if you believe in Jesus and put your faith in him, else God would be guilty himself if he didn’t punish the guilty. A judge becomes wicked and guilty themselves if they let the guilty go unpunished.
I mean I love people. I do. But if someone breaks the law…as Tina Turner said “what’s love got to do with it?”…LOL....The guilty have to be punished. And humanity as a whole is guilty. The bible says “the wicked understand not judgment”. Guilty people don’t typically understand judgment.
Somebody needs to pay for the sin. And if you don’t except Jesus and what he did that person paying is going to be you, and the judge has said that the sentence is eternity, and the punishment is hell. To me this is a no brainer…..I’m settling out of court! Jesus Christ died for my sins on the cross so that I don’t have to face the judge when I die. Any lawyer worth half an ounce will tell you the Double Jeopardy rule applies, a person can’t be tried again for the same offense after being acquitted. Jesus took my punishment so I don’t have too. Praise God!
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Much to my suprise, maybe I HAVE developed a thicker skin than I thought. You see, at times I've been labled as "sensitive". lol
