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Though I doubt you would accept that either since they clearly say we are related to them, even though you clearly said that is your criteria to accept it...it goes against your religious beliefs so its still meaningless.
And I would accept a live conscious chimp; do you have evidence of that?
Yes it has already been presented in scientific journals, universities and government agencies..which you don't accept because the National Science Board didn't confirm it..which is not their job and they never do it as I showed you already with direct links to their website pages.
What do you mean by "conscious"? My cat is quite conscious. He responds to all sorts of stimuli. Right now he's griping because I haven't fed him yet. You really don't think animals are conscious?
Anyway the main point here was about consciousness coming from a "spirit" and not our brain..if that is what you really believe...simply hit your head with a brick and see what happens. Or explain why after an accident many people wake up with a completely different personalities...did their original spirit leave and a new one entered? How about multiple identity disorder? Are there several spirits? Do they need to be exorcised?? I believe it is pretty clear today that all mental disorders are not caused by spirits..but problems with the brains (chemo-electrical imbalances)...your consciousness is entirely linked to your brain. It is entirely chemo-electrical and there is no evidence that it is not.
When they report they have a conscious animal, I think that would be verifiable. This is one of my personal standards for accepting these things.
These proceedings are out of order.
1)When you report what is individually understood by consciousness including a full definition of property, this item can go forward. Once the properties are submitted, they will be used without opportunity for adjustment in this very murky and un-impressive approach to chosen proof.
2)Also, you have not explained the implications of why it is imperative for your proof that animals are not conscious in any way. You are making no point toward the suggested proof without, explaining the importance of human consciousness only ..For example, if human only is conscious as you believe, relative to submitted and suggested proof.... so what?
Last edited by stargazzer; 02-22-2012 at 01:08 AM..
it is reasonable to hypothesize that our consciousness is of the same non-baryonic energy/matter.
Not really. For two reasons.
The first is that just because an as yet unmeasured thing is implied to exist, this does not give us warrant to entirely randomly start claiming that something is made of that thing. Getting from "Our current science seems to imply the existence of Dark Energy" to "Therefore consciousness must be made of Dark Energy" is a complete non sequitur.
The second is that although the phenomenon of consciousness is still an open question in many areas to us, every measurement we make shows nothing but very real energy, released for the metabolism of very real food, and takes the form of electric pulses in the brain. So while we might not understand how these energies are producing consciousness, it very much seems they are. Postulating other energies in the brain for which we have no evidence at all for the presence of adds nothing to the conversation except the fantasies of those who want an already complex topic to be even more complex again.
Proof of consciousness and intelligence in whales and dolphins...
At the Institute for Marine Mammal Studies in Mississippi, a dolphin named Kelly outwitted its human keepers and passed on some of its tricks to its offspring. Dolphins at the centre were rewarded with fish if they collected litter from their tanks and carried it in their mouths to the staff but Kelly found a weakness in the scheme. When people dropped paper into her tank, she hid it under a rock on the bottom. When a keeper next approached, she swam down and tore a small piece off, and returned to the surface to claim her reward. She worked out that a small piece of paper earned the same reward as a big piece, and so maximised her meals.
Then one day, Kelly managed to grab a gull that flew into the tank. When she delivered it to her keepers, she got an especially large fish reward. The next time Kelly was fed she hid the fish at the bottom of the pool, and later brought it to the surface to lure more gulls into the pool. The strategy proved so successful that she taught her offspring, who went on to teach others. Whales and dolphins 'should have legal rights' | World news | The Guardian
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