Prominent Atheist blogger converts to Christianity... (Mormon, Baptists, Biblical, sunday)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
what kind of god what wants people to believe in him without evidence? This is why it is called faith quoting the bible is circular reasoning i don't care what some 2000+ year old book say
I lean toward thinking God generally doesn't want a coerced belief. Many on the logical side of things are essentially saying that you should only believe in things because you have no choice. Logic, in my limited understanding, is mostly telling us what must be true not what is true or false. Belief should be forced on you by the evidence.
I think God maybe doesn't want to do violence to your personality by forcing you to believe like that. I mean I think if God proved himself to some of you you'd, with respects, become Satanists. Because I think you dislike the idea of God as much, or more, than you find it unproven. God might prefer your ignorance to your outright hatred.
Or I'm projecting. I think there's evidence for God and the supernatural, but I admit it's not incontrovertible. However I really don't want to pressure any atheist to change. Some of you come close to demanding me "go on pressure me, I want you to." But that's not my way. You can look into all the miracles linked to the canonization of saints and read "Just Six Numbers" by atheist Martin Rees. Or you can look into the more intellectual ex-atheists mentioned on this thread. You can, if you want, do that. But you can also not do that or do that and come away unimpressed. It's up to you. I tend to think conversion is ultimately between the individual and God. Work it out on your own, or don't, but I'm hopefully not going to play into the game of trying to "hit you in the head" as Chesterton put it.
It does not matter what Christian denomination or sect you belong to, or if you even want to be a member of any church. I myself do not belong to any specific church or sect. Whether you belong to the Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox or Mormon church, we are all Christians. However one church I disagree with and shouldn't even consider themselves 'Christians' are Westboro Baptist Church. They are embarrasing and act worse than animals. Thank God they are not violent though.
Did I say you will suffer in hell for not believe in Jesus and God? No.
What I could tell you according to the Bible; "Nobody enters kingdom of heaven and paradise except thru Christ".
God could only judge us.
I still believe that most nonbelievers convert sooner or later in life, especially when they get older and/or are sick and need prayers and comfort.
Oh, the many versions of the Christian bibles say more than just that. Why don't you trust in your idol of ink and wood and read it from cover to cover about 7 times? Westboro probably does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by In God We Trust
It does not matter what Christian denomination or sect you belong to, or if you even want to be a member of any church. I myself do not belong to any specific church or sect. Whether you belong to the Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox or Mormon church, we are all Christians. However one church I disagree with and shouldn't even consider themselves 'Christians' are Westboro Baptist Church. They are embarrasing and act worse than animals. Thank God they are not violent though.
Good, than Meester-Chung can start his own Jesus cult, just like the Master of Confusion would have him do. Jesus could agree with whatever Meester-Chung wants him to... Meester-Chung might as well worship himself and pretend Jesus agrees, and if he hypnotized and convinces himself that his corrupt religion is correct than he should feel just dandy with the sadistic threats from Christians... But what about the transcendental threats from Muslims, Fundamentalist Christians, Hindus, etc?
i don't care what the bible say. it is a collection of myths written by superstitious people
non-believers know more about religion than the believers
That depends on the denomination, level of education, etc. In that Pew Survey Mormons came out pretty much the same as non-believers.
Members of the Dominican Order, on average, likely know more about religion than non-believers. I'd put a Dominican friar I know above many to most non-believers here in education and intelligence. That might sound biased, but he has a doctorate and going by standardized testing his IQ is like 120. Okay that's lower than I thought, likely below many of you, but he's pretty smart guy. (Granted mine is more like 125-130 as I recall, probably also below many of you)
That depends on the denomination, level of education, etc. In that Pew Survey Mormons came out pretty much the same as non-believers.
Members of the Dominican Order, on average, likely know more about religion than non-believers. I'd put a Dominican friar I know above many to most non-believers here in education and intelligence. That might sound biased, but he has a doctorate and going by standardized testing his IQ is like 120. Okay that's lower than I thought, likely below many of you, but he's pretty smart guy. (Granted mine is more like 125-130 as I recall, probably also below many of you)
what evidence do you have other than hearsays? hearsyas are not evidence and if somebody has a PHD or doctorate while still believing in ancient superstitions their brain is malfunctioning.
Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says
Report says nonbelievers know more, on average, about religion than most faithful. Jews and Mormons also score high on the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey.
The Proof of His non-existence is in my own honest & intense searching and thinking. His fail, not mine!
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by In God We Trust
Not true. The majority of all educated and wealthy people in this planet are religious. That one single site is all joke
Is that fact or opinion? Even if it is fact, my next comment would be: so what? Majority Rules? The Bigger Club is The Winnah? Or what, exactly?
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144
Well I still think we all need to believe in something bigger than ourselves and that goes for atheists and religious people alike. Not picking on anyone. Some seem to be overly sensitive and think I mean you. Whatever.
I do not NEED to believe in something "bigger". What do you mean, exactly, by "bigger"? More powerful? Larger? More able to do miracles with a simple hand-wave? i.e.: to impress lots of illiterate people with sleight of hand? Sorry: does not impress me.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by In God We Trust
No you don't believe in God. There's nothing greater than one and truly God.
Nice opinion, but where's the supporting evidence, aside from your intense desire for there to "be" a God of your specific imagining? or, said another way by MC here...
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung
provide evidence of this one true god?
This next billboard poster list belongs in that Majority Rules Club as well I'm assuming (And so I edited the hell out of it! After all, it IS just a short list and means, well, nothing. So they converted. Whoop-De-Doo! So what? In about 1970, I converted the other way, but you forgot to put my name in that long and growing list of converts from Christianity to atheism, a common trend)...)
[quote=In God We Trust;25125668]Some well-known atheists who converted to Christianity...
(rifleman duly notes here on this particular convert: "In his book Collins totally rejects Young Earth Creationism and the sham of Intelligent Design. His own belief is one of modified theistic evolution or evolutionary creation, which he prefers to term BioLogos. He has notably written a book on this, and thus benefits from his tenured position and his scientifically invested but not proven claims.
Now, I'm briefly going to focus on several of these rote-parroted proofs of god that are obviously prevalent on the Christian blog-o-sphere, since they are so often repeated, despite that FACT that they are so wildly out of time and errant that whoever posts them has automatically defined their lack of a critical mindset and any education in astronomy or science.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by In God We Trust
√ Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset—all of these things point to a Creator God.
(EPIC FAIL No. 1: Or Not... Proof of God through being awestruck at simple factual astronomy.)
√ “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Psalm 14:1). Since the vast majority of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, and on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God, there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.
(EPIC FAIL No. 2: Proof of God through claiming all His deniers are idiots, and then quoting the bible to "prove" that point..)
√ A second argument is the teleological argument. The teleological argument states that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a divine Designer. For example, if the Earth were significantly closer or farther away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, nearly every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10243 (that is a 1 followed by 243 zeros). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.
[color="Blue"](EPIC FAIL No. 3: The organisms that have evolved here on a highly variable Earth are precisely fitted to pre-existing conditions. Else, none would not have evolved to fit them! This is so elementally obvious that I stagger at the obtuse and reversed thinking that attends this stupidest of all pro-Christian arguments.
Be aware also, IGWT, that all the dinosaurs evolved in significantly different atmospheric conditions than now (more CO2, higher humidity, far higher average temperatures, etc.) and indeed, if a huge meteorite (The Chicxulub Mexican Peninsula impact, which is fact, and happened long before the YEC Insta-Earth chronology. )
EPIC FAIL NO. 4: Fact is, We do have significantly different conditions right now, on this very earth. Evolution is exactly why we have been able to macro-adapt such different Evolved life forms, organisms whose genomes have adapted by trial and error to "fit" the available but hugely diverse niches that have developed here on earth, with many more variations still to come. God did not finish anything with Genesis: with what you choses to blindly see. FACT: it's all en-route to some significant changes, which we can and do now measure. Too bad you're not keeping up with even the basics though, huh?
Penguins, leopards, African wind-drifter desert spiders, polar bears, ice worms, and so on. All "evolved" under hugely different but locally stable conditions. Your idea that it's all perfectly "designed" just for us arrogant men is shamefully and poorly thought out, and yet, you guys all gravitate to it so willingly, and so frequently.
Q:When yah gonna learn to think for yourselves I wonder...
A third logical argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” cause is God.
EPIC FAIL NO. 5: So, uhmmm sticking to this idea right back to it's source, who then created your God? I know, I know: this is best a topic that we should just drop, huh? Yup: Ignore the difficult quesitons and press on, praying as we go.... <yawn>
People claim to reject God’s existence because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once they admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from Him (Romans 3:23, 6:23).
(EPIC FAIL No. 6: Nope. Wrong, so very WRONG. The true reason is that, when tested, all of the confirmations of supposed godly miracles always completely FAIL. Meantime, when these conditional miracles are rationally reviewed by a logical Q&A system (called The Scientific Method btw, which is NOT an Evil™ entity as so many Christians love to blurt out......), they always fail miserably, and yet can then be logically explained by other simpler and lore rational methods.
It's you who is in despair about what happens when we debunk all those truly silly (I'd say "truly stupid", but I don't want to get censured here.. ) old goat-herder stories. then you'll have to die all alone, with no Golden Ship coming to save you! You'll just die, no afterworld Heavenly rewards. Nada. Kinda problematic for Christians, isn't it?
If God exists, then we are accountable to Him for our actions.
(you may be accountable to an invisible sky daddy, but I prefer to be accountable to myself alone, to be morally accountable and responsible for all my actions, not hoping to get out of trouble with a prayer at the last moment. That sort of thinking would allow a viciously sadistic serial child murder to get off with nothing more than a prayer, while Mother Teresa, who converted away from a false god at the end of her life, is destined to go to your hell? Wow! What a great setup! Glad I have avoided it!).
If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. That is why many of those who deny the existence of God cling strongly to the theory of naturalistic evolution—it gives them an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.
(EPIC FAIL No.7. There is no God, and I'm therefore not responsible to a non-existent entity. I do not believe in your particular god, though I once did. The silly things we children will cling to huh? Santa, monsters under the bed, a vengeful god who will surely "git me" if'n I'm not a really "good" little boy! Sorry! No deal, no sale.
How do we know God exists? As Christians, we know God exists because we speak to Him every day. We do not audibly hear Him speaking to us, but we sense His presence, we feel His leading, we know His love, we desire His grace. Things have occurred in our lives that have no possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved us and changed our lives that we cannot help but acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is already obvious.
(EPIC FAIL No. 8: Proof of God by common {though errant..} mass assumption. See: lemmings and flat earth theorists.) As well, the only thing that is patently obvious to me, after literally ten+ years of careful, honest, introspective and well-debated analysis, coupled with an extensive education in logic and analysis, from the ages of ≈ 16 through ≈27, is that He does not exist.
And so you cannot now just hand-wavingly, insultingly, arrogantly and mockingly dismiss my intense efforts to prove him up, which was my original intent. Yes indeed; I wanted and tried to refresh my acquaintance with my childhood and teenaged God, but in the end, it all failed. Logic prevailed.
Jesus said: "Blessed are those who have not yet seen me"
I must be truly blessed then {PS: so what? I could care less on that one!}, since even when I was a practicing Christian, he wouldn't ever show up.
I went to the "concert" several times, but he didn't show for his appointed appearance! And hasn't yet either, nor will you get to see him at the much hoped-for and desperately anticipated End Times. Honestly, the frantic desire for that impossibility is palpable.
In summary, all of ythe arguments I reviweed above are just so much tiresome malarky, so easily disproven on their surface. I ask you to tell me SPECIFICALLY where my points are so very wrong. What part or element does not work in Evolution Theory? Where is the geologic column actually faulty? What about all those organisms that did Evolve in significantly different climatic conditions than your glorious Average Earthly temps and all those other "necessary" constants?
I lean toward thinking God generally doesn't want a coerced belief. Many on the logical side of things are essentially saying that you should only believe in things because you have no choice. Logic, in my limited understanding, is mostly telling us what must be true not what is true or false. Belief should be forced on you by the evidence.
I think God maybe doesn't want to do violence to your personality by forcing you to believe like that. I mean I think if God proved himself to some of you you'd, with respects, become Satanists. Because I think you dislike the idea of God as much, or more, than you find it unproven. God might prefer your ignorance to your outright hatred.
Or I'm projecting. I think there's evidence for God and the supernatural, but I admit it's not incontrovertible. However I really don't want to pressure any atheist to change. Some of you come close to demanding me "go on pressure me, I want you to." But that's not my way. You can look into all the miracles linked to the canonization of saints and read "Just Six Numbers" by atheist Martin Rees. Or you can look into the more intellectual ex-atheists mentioned on this thread. You can, if you want, do that. But you can also not do that or do that and come away unimpressed. It's up to you. I tend to think conversion is ultimately between the individual and God. Work it out on your own, or don't, but I'm hopefully not going to play into the game of trying to "hit you in the head" as Chesterton put it.
You are by no means the generality of Christian. Christianity does indeed seem to demand that we believe through Faith not by evidence. That of course combined with the 'free will' thing - mainly because it can be made to look like it's our fault if we don't believe, not God's for not giving a better reason than Faith.
I think you are projecting or at least misunderstanding. It must look to many believers that we hate god and religion so much that, even it it was true we would swear allegiance to Stan out of sheer God -hate and then another fine mess we would have gotten into.
Of course, if one steps out of Mel Gibson mode they will realize that, if God was evidently true, we would believe it, so the question wouldn't arise. The apparent 'Hate' is simply because we find it evidently NOT true.
By the way, reading the miracles connected with canonizations, just make us smile. Perhaps you could read the debacle of trying to fiddle a miracle to justify canonization of old JP2. And we are well aware of Martin Rees and do not, like you apparently, see a 'genesis event' and immediately think it is evidence for Biblegod.
Oh, the many versions of the Christian bibles say more than just that. Why don't you trust in your idol of ink and wood and read it from cover to cover about 7 times? Westboro probably does.
Very insulting. It's difficult to discuss something with nonbelievers unless you act like childish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
Good, than Meester-Chung can start his own Jesus cult, just like the Master of Confusion would have him do. Jesus could agree with whatever Meester-Chung wants him to... Meester-Chung might as well worship himself and pretend Jesus agrees, and if he hypnotized and convinces himself that his corrupt religion is correct than he should feel just dandy with the sadistic threats from Christians... But what about the transcendental threats from Muslims, Fundamentalist Christians, Hindus, etc?
Shouldn't he still be afraid of those?
All churches (Except Westboro) uses the Bible and preach. Good Luck with opening a fake cult ''church'' and enjoy your tax exemption
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Proof of His non-existence is in my own honest & intense searching and thinking. His fail, not mine!
) old goat-herder stories. then you'll have to die all alone, with no Golden Ship coming to save you! You'll just die, no afterworld Heavenly rewards. Nada. Kinda problematic for Christians, isn't it?
