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What I said was..... It's nonsence to say you know for certain that there is no God, because that is unknowable. It isn't nonsense to say that "based on the lack of credible evidence, I conclude there is no God"
So if I claim that I saw a thief steel something from my neighbor's house it isn't nonsense to claim that I didn't see a burglary?
Your attempt to try and prove your own point by twisting my words to make it sound as though I agree with you that to claim there is no God is nonsense, that agenda.
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So if I claim that I saw a thief steel something from my neighbor's house it isn't nonsense to claim that I didn't see a burglary?
You lost me here. How are the two situations even comparable? I'll humor you though. Yes, it would be nonsense to claim there was no robbery if infact you DID SEE it happen.
Now I can almost anticipate your next post. You are going to claim to have seen or have had some kind of experience with this God you believe in, aren't you?
Welllll...... heres where the two situations are different. If you saw someone steal something from someones house, your claim that a robbery took place would be.....EVIDENCED........ by the missing item that was taken, whereas your "experience with God" has zero evidence to back it up other than your own word. Hopefuly this clears it up a bit for you.
Your attempt to try and prove your own point by twisting my words to make it sound as though I agree with you that to claim there is no God is nonsense, that agenda.
Oh, okay. Your use of the word "agenda" is amusing then.
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
You lost me here.
At least you are honest.
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
Yes, it would be nonsense to claim there was no robbery if infact you DID SEE it happen.
I think you are getting it. You don't seem "lost" as you put it.
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
Now I can almost anticipate your next post. You are going to claim to have seen or have had some kind of experience with this God you believe in, aren't you?
You could start a show with John Edwards, with that kind of clairvoyance.
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
Welllll...... heres where the two situations are different. If you saw someone steal something from someones house, your claim that a robbery took place would be.....EVIDENCED........ by the missing item that was taken, whereas your "experience with God" has zero evidence to back it up other than your own word. Hopefuly this clears it up a bit for you.
Who's to say I even had the object in question to begin with?
Aliens told me there was no god when they abducted me last summer on a camping trip.
My psychiatrist told me there no aliens and that I wasn't abducted.
The collections representative could not demonstrate psychiatrists were real to my satisfaction over the phone so I told him I couldn't possibly have an outstanding psychiatric bill to pay.
Then I watched The Matrix... now I can't get the idea out of my head that our entire world isn't real, much less god!
Do I count?
I was also abducted last summer, but they told me there was no Satan. I think they're playing a joke. Don't pay the psychiatrist, I heard he is an alien.
What agenda would that be?So if I claim that I saw a thief steel something from my neighbor's house it isn't nonsense to claim that I didn't see a burglary?
It's certainly nonsense if the evidence is that the neighbour's house wasn't in fact burgled. Then you'd look a bit of a loon.
It's quite amusing to see this far from unusual game plan of pulling oll sorts of rhetorical tricks to try to win a case on technical points rather than having to make any kind of case.
Having said that, the thread itself is an interesting one as I am rather uncomfortable with this 'know God doesn't exist' claim which I have come across on a regular basis. The fact is though that I also 'know' that no gods exist even though I know that logically I can't know.
The Santa Claus analogy is in fact a very sound one and that's why we use it. It is a global phenomenon of a man- made mythical figure who everyone talks about as though he was real. But (unlike gods) everyone 'knows' that isn't. Logically, no -one can say that they 'know'. Thus gnostic a- santa -ism is logically wrong.
But nobody sees anything odd about people actually coming right out with it 'Of course santa isn't real'. Anyone who says 'How do you know? You would have to have all knowledge to be sure. Your claim to know there is no Santa is illogical. Ok, you claim there is evidence that those presents are made in factories - but who is behind all that that? If you don't know, how can you say it isn't Santa? It is simply arrogant to claim to be so sure. It is all about your pride. You want to be in command and not responsible to anyone else. You want to be the 'Santa' figure. In fact, the whole reason you deny Santa is that you don't want to behave well. It burns you up to think that you have to act decently or lose out on your presents..'
That is absolutely the sort of arguments used to attack disbelievers rather than make any case for the belief. It is a red herring to argue that there is no comparison between Santa and God. When it comes down to it, the evidence for God is no better than the evidence for Santa.
There's that obsession with santa clause again. Why is this poor comparison used so frequently among non believers?
Why is it poor?
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The input I am looking for is from a "gnostic atheist". Someone who claims to know god does not exist. If that is you, then please provide evidence for your claim.
Read the rest of my post. Or not. No skin off my nose either way, but it's strange you'd ask a question and then ignore most of the answer. It's almost as if you're looking for stuff to back up some agenda rather than honestly looking to learn.
I agree. It is "nonsense" to claim that there isn't a God.
Oh look at who is wrong again, it isn't wrong toclaim anything, but it is wrong to claim to know something that can't possibly be known. Like claiming to know that a god exists.
I do not state that gods do not exist. I do, however, think that gods do not exist with the same confidence that I think that vampires, werewolves, ghosts, poltergeists, pixies and other things that go bump in the night do not exist. Why do I reach this conclusion? I reach this conclusion because there is zero evidence to support a conclusion that such things exist. Evidence is data that will point to a conclusion, regardless of the attitude or prejudices of the person viewing the data. I am not anti-god any more than I am anti-pixie, I just don't factor gods or pixies into explanations, for the same reason.
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