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We can all post a link to some book/article/web site that supports our position. To do so doesn't encourage debate.
I quite agree. Thus I do tend to object when theist apologists try to cut the argument short (when they are losing) and direct me to some book or website that'll answer all my questions ...if I do all the research.
I tend to avoid doing it myself. It's correct to explain a point and THEN indicate some source, but not just to say 'go and research yourself and you'll find I'm right'. Where did I do it? Or is this just some evasive wriggling? You apparently link this with Rifleman's example of his ex -friend's unwholesome attempt to sell him the theist snake -oil. I have to say, for truth, that your debating style could so with some buffing.
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Only a fool would suggest that being a christian will cure ills. Christians die of illnesses, terrible and otherwise, everyday. I highly doubt whether someone would seriously deploy this argument as a reason to embrace G-d.
As Rifleman pointed out, that was just what his ex -friend tried to do. "...an ex-friend of mine [I "divorced" hum when he became a noisy and persistent/insistent born-again Xtian 18 yrs ago...] recently told me, how atheists like me "obviously" lead lives of quiet desperation, of emotionless and meaningless, directionless and morals-free existence, only to die and then find yourself a outcast in hell. You know, when there was a much easier alternative to saving oneself! In fact, this nut claimed that I would not be arthritic if I would only take The Lord and Jesus into my heart (that mechanical pump system..)."
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-23-2012 at 04:44 AM..
I quite agree. Thus I do tend to object when theist apologists try to cut the argument short (when they are losing) and direct me to some book or website that'll answer all my questions ...if I do all the research.
I tend to avoid doing it myself. It's correct to explain a point and THEN indicate some source, but not just to say 'go and research yourself and you'll find I'm right'. Where did I do it? Or is this just some evasive wriggling? You apparently link this with Rifleman's example of his ex -friend's unwholesome attempt to sell him the theist snake -oil. I have to say, for truth, that your debating style could so with some buffing.
As Rifleman pointed out, that was just what his ex -friend tried to do. "...an ex-friend of mine [I "divorced" hum when he became a noisy and persistent/insistent born-again Xtian 18 yrs ago...] recently told me, how atheists like me "obviously" lead lives of quiet desperation, of emotionless and meaningless, directionless and morals-free existence, only to die and then find yourself a outcast in hell. You know, when there was a much easier alternative to saving oneself! In fact, this nut claimed that I would not be arthritic if I would only take The Lord and Jesus into my heart (that mechanical pump system..)."
One example, based on heresay, does not mean its endemic to the rest, if true. As I've said, nowhere is it claimed that being a Christian will cure ills.
What he might have meant is that thru faith he might find peace with the condition, if not symptom relief or a cure. But I'm just supposing.
One example, based on heresay, does not mean its endemic to the rest, if true. As I've said, nowhere is it claimed that being a Christian will cure ills.
What he might have meant is that thru faith he might find peace with the condition, if not symptom relief or a cure. But I'm just supposing.
Rather you are frantically trying to paper over the rather grubby stain in the plaster of his former friend's wall, and Rifleman was pretty clear about what was involved and is better placed to assess the occurrence than you or I.
What I am well - placed to assess is that such loopiness is to be generally connected with firm religious beliefs and telling, well -constructed and well - informed information and reasoning associated with atheism, including those former ministers who deconverted. It is nothing to do with morals or intelligence, but with the way a mind works.
Rather you are frantically trying to paper over the rather grubby stain in the plaster of his former friend's wall, and Rifleman was pretty clear about what was involved and is better placed to assess the occurrence than you or I.
What I am well - placed to assess is that such loopiness is to be generally connected with firm religious beliefs and telling, well -constructed and well - informed information and reasoning associated with atheism, including those former ministers who deconverted. It is nothing to do with morals or intelligence, but with the way a mind works.
As a Christian, I'm quite confident that I've had more in depth and broader interaction with Christians than any atheist. Therefore, when I say that such beliefs are not widely held or espoused as reasons for believing,it comes with greater heft than when claimed or touted by an inherent outsider.
You take Squirt at his word. I am more skeptical, and know there are always two sides to every story.
Ignorance is bliss isn't it? History and knowledge and learning and facts are to be avoided at all costs?
Spare me the academic grandstanding please. I have a graduate degree and am very well read. Your transparent attempt to shame others into gobbling up propaganda remnds one of Tokyo Rose broadcasts.
History and facts are always open to interpretation. For instance, you certainly consider the bible none/little of the above. While I am not a bible literalist, clearly your version of history is obviously quite different than mine. Your rejection of my resources entitles me to do the same with yours
Spare me the academic grandstanding please. I have a graduate degree and am very well read. Your transparent attempt to shame others into gobbling up propaganda remnds one of Tokyo Rose broadcasts.
How can a person who has a graduate degree and is very well read proclaim a television documentary based on a bestselling book described by Kirkus Reviews as: "Superb kaleidoscopic history of religion, from an English nun- turned-scholar." to be propaganda if he hasn't seen the documentary or read the book? Well read indeed... one can only hope that not all your comments are based on non-existent knowledge of the material you comment on...
As a Christian, I'm quite confident that I've had more in depth and broader interaction with Christians than any atheist. Therefore, when I say that such beliefs are not widely held or espoused as reasons for believing,it comes with greater heft than when claimed or touted by an inherent outsider.
Perhaps you have, but I wasn't actually applying such views with a broad brush to all christians, but rather saying that such views were to be generally connected with religious views and was not claiming that or even most Christians had them. The point is that your suggestion that this was a 'one off' and untypical of Christianity is not sustained in my experience. That doesn't mean that the majority of Christians will make such statements.
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You take Squirt at his word. I am more skeptical, and know there are always two sides to every story.
I'm certainly inclined to believe the entity you charmingly name 'squirt' is relating a genuine account as I tend to identify doubtful tales being posted more amongst certain of the theist fraternity.
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Sure, I just have to watch this film and then I will see the wisdom of nontheism. Sureeeeeee......l.
